> ... but I was invited to a
> testing and interview session for Richmond. We
> were told to report to the testing location early
> in the morning either 7 or 8am, I don't remember.
> Once it was time to start, they closed the doors
> and stopped letting people in, even if they were
> one minute late, which I thought was kind of
> harsh.

This was the first pass/fail part of the interview - can you get to work on time. Harsh - try showing up late for work while there is a train tying up the main or yard waiting for you to wander into work - you haven't seen harsh.

> The Superintendent of Operations for the area was
> there, as were several Traimasters (low level
> managers directly in charge of conductors and
> switchmen). They were accompanied by a woman from
> corporate HQ in Ft Worth who would be proctoring
> the whole thing. They all started by giving
> speeches about what the job would entail, what
> switching was what a conductor was, how he was
> different from an engineer, the hours, pay and
> benefits yada yada. Most of the guys there didnt
> seem to know a thing about trains.

You were lucky. The operations managers were involved and an HR rep kept the interviews following company policy and government hiring laws. On UP, you may only deal with HR throughout the whole hiring process.


> We then went into yard/local training. I was
> excited, finally getting to work my dream job. I
> couldn't be more wrong. It was hectic! There was
> so much going on in that yard my head was
> spinning! Between the mountains of switch lists
> and constant other movements in the yard, it was
> hard to keep up. I didnt know how these guys
> seemed to know when to put cars sideways vs
> switching them, kicking vs shoving etc.

It may have been your "dream job", but it is still a job which meant you needed to learn the WORK safely and efficiently.

Go back and read this reply to your original post:

"Re: Railroad Jobs
Author: Dr Zarkoff
Date: 06-03-2014 - 10:11

> I recently applied with UP for conductor jobs in
> Oakland and Fresno. I was just wondering if anyone
> here knows where crews run to from those two
> places. It sure would be interesting to see many
> of the lines I have railfanned from the cab.

Man, are you in for an eye-opening and disillusioning experience -- provided, that is, IF you get hired . . ."


> Furthermore, the crews really tore into me when I
> messed up! I know they were trying to help, but
> they should be nicer about it.

Because they were stuck with an FNG. And if you were foaming, even worse! Even with a student, they still have to get the WORK done while training/babysitting the FNG. And how "nice" do you really think they should have been?


>One week I had a
> yard foreman(yard conductor) who was also a
> railfan. I thought he would understand me more,
> but I was checking out this unpatched WP hopper in
> our train once and he started barking at me
> because we shoved a car too deep! He didnt even
> seem to care about that hopper either!

To a railroader, it's just another car that has to be switched. There are moments you might get to relax and foam a little, but it is still a job and you and being paid to learn how to WORK.

> Working the
> locals weren't much better. I was on a local that
> switches to North Bay intermodal facility once,
> with another conductor who was also a railfan mind
> you. We had this sweet blue and yellow ex-ATSF
> GP60 leading, and I was excited since it was my
> first time riding the cab out on the main. I didnt
> even get to enjoy it, since he was quizzing me the
> whole time. He also wanted me to call out signals,
> and kept demanding that I call them by their
> proper name, like "approach" instead of "yellow".
> He seemed disappointed that I didnt know the speed
> and verbatim associated with the signals. I was
> only five weeks in! What did he expect? He claimed
> that my non-railfan classmates knew the signals
> already and that he would think I would too,
> especially since I was a "foamer". We were in the
> shanty afterwards and he helped me practice taking
> track warrants, but he would restart the whole
> thing if I even got one word wrong. I had a few
> similar experiences with other conductors that I
> wont get into, but I was actually glad to get back
> to the classroom.

That mean railfan conductor was doing was his JOB, he was training a student he was responsible for. Too bad you were too busy foaming not to realize that he was actually doing you a huge favor, taking the time to mentor you on what you needed to do your job. (Many old heads won't give a FNG the time of day and let them hang themsleves.) And I really hate to tell you, but when you copy track warrants you MUST get everything correct on them or trains crash and people can die. It's kind of important. I've copied and repeated many of them, it can be done accurately and efficiently. Is it UP or BNSF that now has the dispatching rule that if you can't repeat a track warrant correctly in three tries everything slams to a halt until you are replaced?

> We had to
> write a whole page on restricted speed one night!

It is amazing how many people can't get this correct. Ridiculous Restricted Speed can get you in trouble so fast you can't believe it. Remember while the engineer is running the conductor is still equally responsible. You have to take into account the visibility and stopping distance to decide exactly how fast you dare go. If you screw up, you will know it in a hurry.

> I was so overwhelmed towards the end of the week
> that I just skipped out on the homework one night.
> The local union rep of all people ripped me a new
> one the next day because of that.

Again - you were too stupid to realize he was trying to help you.


>I really don't
> know how he thought writing would make me a better
> conductor, but he was sure upset.

Way back when, the standard teaching method was to make you "write the rules". I doubt he would have been concerned if he thought you had a working grasp on the rules. It has been claimed that the old rules required an education level of at least a year or two of college, but that the GCOR was rewritten beginning with the second or third(?) edition to supposedly a fifth grade level.


> I will say
> though, other than that, I think that week went
> pretty well.... until the midterm exam. I forget
> my exact score, but it was far from perfect. There
> were just so many things to remember! I was,
> however assured that it was alright as the midterm
> was not graded and was only used to show progress
> and that there would be more time to study before
> the final. I was informed, however that I was
> below average.

HINT - YOU WERE FAILING!

> Next it was time for road training! ... As much as
> I enjoyed cruising along the high iron at speed,
> most of the consisted of both the conductor and
> the engineer constantly quizzing.

Again - were your brother (and sister) railroaders being "mean" or were they trying to be sure you knew enough to do your job safely and pass the final test?

> Also, they
> seemed very unreasonable with the hours. I had to
> work during the daytime one day, and at night the
> very next night! All of this with very little
> warning, just a phone call! Don't get me wrong
> though, I did enjoy working the road.

BNSF runs 7/24/365 - or with all your experience of a railfan did you fail to pay attention during the interview process that as long as you were on the extra board or in a pool you would always be subject to a 2 hour call unless you had laid off or subject to rest for hours of service.


> They were actually very friendly towards me at
> first, and we even talked about railfanning
> Tehachapi for a bit. Once we got on the train
> though, the started quizzing me again. When I
> couldn't answer a lot of there questions, they
> started to get angry about how my training was
> almost over and I should know this stuff already
> and that the rest of my class was lightyears ahead
> of me. The engineer seemed particularly furious
> that I was giving a bad name for "foamers" working
> in the industry. I was still brand new! I didn't
> know why everyone was expecting me to know
> everything while at the same time blowing up at
> knew guys who DID seem to know everything for
> being "know-it-alls".

As a brakeman, you would have had a little more time to learn some of this "stuff". But most railroaders quit hiring brakemen after the 1985 agreement. You had to be able to be marked up as a QUALIFIED CONDUCTOR. The engineer can help you out only so far - in the end you have to be capable of doing your JOB safely on your own. If you are riding a 50 car shove down a mainline the engineer has to trust that you are giving him the correct information to control the train - there isn't a whole lot he can do from a 1/2 mile plus away.


> When running the power
> around the train at Stockton, the conductor had so
> much of a problem with my car counts and relaying
> signals to the engineer that he took over
> everything and wouldn't let me do anything at
> all!

Again - you were a STUDENT and the conductor was responsible for your safety and training. If you were incapable of doing the task, it was his duty to take over to protect you, himself, the engineer and the public's safety.


> We then went in for our last week of class, and
> then it was time for the final at last. A 90% or
> better was required to pass. Mind you, in any
> learning institution a "B" is considered good, but
> apparently BNSF considers it failing... which I
> did.

OK - let's do the math. According to you, a score of 80% would still be a passing grade of a "B" which means you missed TWICE as many as the require 90% minimum score. Or - take your GCOR and cross out every fifth rule or tear out every fifth page because those aren't important enough for you to know. DO you really want your doctor or pilot to potentially have a 20% error rate? So you only needed to comply with the rules (aka safe work practices) some of the time?


> I honestly don't know how anyone can absorb
> that much material in so little time, much less a
> non-enthusiast who knows nothing but trains, but
> somehow my entire class passed except me and one
> other guy!

So in your class of 10, 80% of them managed to learn the concept of the rules even though they had absolutely no idea what a train was past watching Thomas cartoons as a kid or being delayed at a crossing? I agree - it is a lot to learn and understand, and much of it varies how it is taught - but they seemed to get it.

> All was not lost though, as the two of
> us were sent to the main training center in
> Overland Park, KS for one more week of classroom
> training and a second, and final, and chance at
> the test. Much to my disappointment, I failed
> again. I was out of a job. To make matters worse,
> the other guy, a non-railfan passed (although I
> later learned that he was fired before his
> probation period for union protection was up).

Because he buckled down and studied enough to pass the test, but evidently was incapable of actually applying what he learned.


> Although, it really troubled me to
> see how anti-railfan a lot of the workforce was,
> including from other railfans.

They are not there to foam. They are there to WORK, make a living with the primary goal to have everyone go home without any injuries (or worse).


> ... the job sure isn't for everyone.

You just answered your own question. BNSF invested a lot of money to train you as a conductor and got NOTHING of value in return from you. Did you really expect them to pay you while you were foaming, and on your own time schedule? The only real error I see is that BNSF mistook your rabid foaming as enthusiasm for a career in railroading and should have never hired you, and may hesitate hiring any additional railfans.

I have worked with many who just never "get it". Not everyone is cut out, able and has the aptitude to do any job they think they might enjoy. I've worked with some of the nicest people who couldn't switch a giraffe out of a flock of sheep, and engineers that could find slack in a one car train. It doesn't matter if the railroader hates their job, is indifferent or is a railfan (closeted or out) - as long as they work safely in accordance with the intent of the rules, reasonably efficient and decent to get along with I'll gladly work with them.

Railroading as a hobby has little to do with railroading as a job. Railroading - done right - is generally a boring job. I like it that way, the moments of terror (fortunately rare) as things go wrong I can do without.

Sorry to say - but I can't tell if your aptitude or attitude failed you. Please enjoy your new career opportunity and go back to being just a railfan.