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Re: Guess the body of water in this photo
Author: SP5103
Date: 08-18-2017 - 10:08
hugo_de_caf Wrote:
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> It looks like its somewhere in the Sierras, but
> couldn't tell you anything about the location or
> name of the water.
>
> I think the possible lakes that this picture took
> place at are:
>
> - Lake Oroville
> - Goose Lake
> - Owens Lake
You should have considered railroad history/knowledge before relying solely on geographic guesses.
Lake Oroville - This would have been the WP. While WP did run some good size articulateds of their own, I don't know if SP ever detoured through Feather River with cab forwards (an interesting question in itself). I don't recall there being any part of the drier grassy lowlands of this route being next to the lake. It's a moot point anyway as Lake Oroville wasn't even built until after the end of steam (at least for WP, not counting the Feather River Railway's shays).
Owens Lake - At no point was the line wedged between the lake and hills close to the waterline, and the grass and trees are completely wrong, and the islands/tress in the background are wrong. Far too much water as LA-DWP had already stolen most of the water out of the valley and dried up the lake (though local diversions for agriculture had a head start until LA bought up the water rights). The primary reason for building the line was support the aqueduct construction. The line was primarily 75# rail as I recall. The largest steam I am aware of to operate along the lake were mikes (common power besides consolidations), but surprisingly single SD39s were common despite being some of the heaviest diesels on the SP at the time. The train is far too big and the wrong cars to have ever been on the line, even during the aqueduct construction era. Once Trona got going, the line from Mojave to Searles was upgraded and it did see cab forwards, though I would have to double check to see if all classes of cab forwards were allowed. I believe the Mina branch did also see the smaller cab forwards at least as far as Thorne (Hawthorne) though I don't know if the trains were big enough to demand them other than WWII.
Goose Lake - Again - the islands and trees along the shore are wrong for Goose Lake. SP's line through Susanville and Westwood was cleared for at least all but the largest cab forward classes. This was in part because SP had built this line from the beginning to mainline standards expecting to continue to a connection near Klamath Falls. After SP purchased the narrow gauge NCO in the late 1920s, they standard gauged it from Wendel to Lakeview, plus built a new connection from Alturas to Klamath Falls. The combination of these lines became the Modoc Line, while Alturas-Lakeview and Wendel-Susanville-Westwood were relegated to branchline status. When SP standard gaged the Lakeview branch, they utilized relay (used) rail of other mains being upgraded to heavy rail. So at least the Lakeview branch ended up with only 75# or 90# rail, far older than the gage conversion date. I presume that the Modoc originally had similar rail, but that was worn out and later upgraded allowing the operations of SP's biggest cab forwards and the AC-9s. To my knowledge, SP never used anything bigger than a 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0 or 4-8-0 on the branch. I'm not sure a mike was rated for the branch or they even had the traffic or grades to require something that heavy. I know with diesels they look to have used an S-12 initially, and soon were using a single GP-9 almost exclusively. There was a rating for SD-9s, so SP may have used them at times. Again - train far too big for anything coming off the branch. Once Lake County bought the line, most operations have been some form of GP-7/GP-9, though the last two operators have used a SW1000 (unsuccessfully), B23-7, B30-7(?), GP38-2 (very briefly) and GP49s on the branch. The winds of change are again blowing across Goose Lake - watch for the railroad to change next month.
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> It looks like its somewhere in the Sierras, but
> couldn't tell you anything about the location or
> name of the water.
>
> I think the possible lakes that this picture took
> place at are:
>
> - Lake Oroville
> - Goose Lake
> - Owens Lake
You should have considered railroad history/knowledge before relying solely on geographic guesses.
Lake Oroville - This would have been the WP. While WP did run some good size articulateds of their own, I don't know if SP ever detoured through Feather River with cab forwards (an interesting question in itself). I don't recall there being any part of the drier grassy lowlands of this route being next to the lake. It's a moot point anyway as Lake Oroville wasn't even built until after the end of steam (at least for WP, not counting the Feather River Railway's shays).
Owens Lake - At no point was the line wedged between the lake and hills close to the waterline, and the grass and trees are completely wrong, and the islands/tress in the background are wrong. Far too much water as LA-DWP had already stolen most of the water out of the valley and dried up the lake (though local diversions for agriculture had a head start until LA bought up the water rights). The primary reason for building the line was support the aqueduct construction. The line was primarily 75# rail as I recall. The largest steam I am aware of to operate along the lake were mikes (common power besides consolidations), but surprisingly single SD39s were common despite being some of the heaviest diesels on the SP at the time. The train is far too big and the wrong cars to have ever been on the line, even during the aqueduct construction era. Once Trona got going, the line from Mojave to Searles was upgraded and it did see cab forwards, though I would have to double check to see if all classes of cab forwards were allowed. I believe the Mina branch did also see the smaller cab forwards at least as far as Thorne (Hawthorne) though I don't know if the trains were big enough to demand them other than WWII.
Goose Lake - Again - the islands and trees along the shore are wrong for Goose Lake. SP's line through Susanville and Westwood was cleared for at least all but the largest cab forward classes. This was in part because SP had built this line from the beginning to mainline standards expecting to continue to a connection near Klamath Falls. After SP purchased the narrow gauge NCO in the late 1920s, they standard gauged it from Wendel to Lakeview, plus built a new connection from Alturas to Klamath Falls. The combination of these lines became the Modoc Line, while Alturas-Lakeview and Wendel-Susanville-Westwood were relegated to branchline status. When SP standard gaged the Lakeview branch, they utilized relay (used) rail of other mains being upgraded to heavy rail. So at least the Lakeview branch ended up with only 75# or 90# rail, far older than the gage conversion date. I presume that the Modoc originally had similar rail, but that was worn out and later upgraded allowing the operations of SP's biggest cab forwards and the AC-9s. To my knowledge, SP never used anything bigger than a 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0 or 4-8-0 on the branch. I'm not sure a mike was rated for the branch or they even had the traffic or grades to require something that heavy. I know with diesels they look to have used an S-12 initially, and soon were using a single GP-9 almost exclusively. There was a rating for SD-9s, so SP may have used them at times. Again - train far too big for anything coming off the branch. Once Lake County bought the line, most operations have been some form of GP-7/GP-9, though the last two operators have used a SW1000 (unsuccessfully), B23-7, B30-7(?), GP38-2 (very briefly) and GP49s on the branch. The winds of change are again blowing across Goose Lake - watch for the railroad to change next month.
