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Re: New on Jan 4 NTSB update re: Amtrak 501-Not Much New?
Author: Dr Zarkoff
Date: 01-10-2018 - 20:17
> BOB2 alluded to it above. The NTSB confirmed that an advance T30/P30 speed board was posted two miles out. There's a lot of talk about the conductor making a qualifying trip, but isn't that a moot point since route familiarity isn't required for proper interpretation of that sign?
Actually, "route familiarity" for trainmen doesn't entail the detailed familiarity required for an E. However, neither is required to memorize the locations of all speed changes ("location" meaning "precise mile post location").
When I was at the SP, the SP didn't want rote memorization of the TTSI. What it wanted was general knowledge and comprehension of rules and their structure in the Book of Rules coupled to how and exactly where precise details could be found in the TTSI.
> Additionally, route qualified or not, Amtrak doesn't require conductors to memorize any permanent speed restrictions, right?
It's not really "required" of engineers either, although they are responsible for obeying the speed limits in the TTSI for the line in question. Many engineers, particularly X-board ones, will make their own speed tables for ready reference.
I have seen physical characteristic tests for both E and T which contained a requirement to know certain crucial speed restrictions, such as the 79-30 one 501. These are (or were) locally generated by the crewbase training people, and were subject to change of content periodically.
> Last I heard, being route qualified as an Amtrak conductor was nothing at all like an engineer getting qualified. One or two trips on the head end, and that was it.
> I assume the qualifying conductor was rules qualified though, so under those circumstances, what would be expected of him after passing the advance T30/P30 sign?
Ideally he would notice it and call it out.
> Would he be able to argue that proper rules compliance on his part was impossible being unfamiliar with the route?
No.
Actually, "route familiarity" for trainmen doesn't entail the detailed familiarity required for an E. However, neither is required to memorize the locations of all speed changes ("location" meaning "precise mile post location").
When I was at the SP, the SP didn't want rote memorization of the TTSI. What it wanted was general knowledge and comprehension of rules and their structure in the Book of Rules coupled to how and exactly where precise details could be found in the TTSI.
> Additionally, route qualified or not, Amtrak doesn't require conductors to memorize any permanent speed restrictions, right?
It's not really "required" of engineers either, although they are responsible for obeying the speed limits in the TTSI for the line in question. Many engineers, particularly X-board ones, will make their own speed tables for ready reference.
I have seen physical characteristic tests for both E and T which contained a requirement to know certain crucial speed restrictions, such as the 79-30 one 501. These are (or were) locally generated by the crewbase training people, and were subject to change of content periodically.
> Last I heard, being route qualified as an Amtrak conductor was nothing at all like an engineer getting qualified. One or two trips on the head end, and that was it.
> I assume the qualifying conductor was rules qualified though, so under those circumstances, what would be expected of him after passing the advance T30/P30 sign?
Ideally he would notice it and call it out.
> Would he be able to argue that proper rules compliance on his part was impossible being unfamiliar with the route?
No.
