Re: Atk in SC
Author: tundraboomer
Date: 02-07-2018 - 19:15

What OPRRMS said, but I'll try to fill in some of the blanks for you Nudge.

Nudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried to read thru all the comments but got
> lost. I ran a steam engine for the Army in VA that
> is the closest I ever came to this area by rail.
>
> Having never seen the area or know the operating
> rules, I formed an opinion, as such.
>
> The area was or used to be ABS or CTC.

It's been determined that it was ABS with TWC-D until some time within the last 10 years it was cut over to CTC.

> There was an order saying that the signals in the
> area were out of service.

Yes, signal suspension conditions while the signal department installed PTC hardware. However, this was at 2-something in the morning so NO Signal people were out there at the time thus no Form B's (or whatever CSX calls them), no "EIC", no switch tenders, etc. Just TWC-D operation as though it was simply dark territory, which is not uncommon on CSX.

> I think there were two mains and a siding. Part
> way on the siding was a hand thrown cross-over and
> two hand thrown switches.

No. There was a main and a double-ended storage track (non-controlled, or "other-than-main-track"). Many posts and the media keep referring to it as a "siding", implying that it was controlled track, but it was not from what I've been able to find out.

> As practice, the CSX train had used this
> cross-over to double over to the siding. Once on
> the siding, the died under the hours of service
> and tied up and went home.

No crossover and no DOL that has been formally announced. It appears that the crew simply finished their work, shoved their train into the storage track and secured it, called the DS to provide their SPAF information then release their authority, then got a ride back to the terminal without, unfortunately, actually restoring the switch to normal as they reported to the DS.

> On one of the main lines was the "outside"
> crossover switch that had not been restored to its
> proper position.

No. The storage track switch on one end was left open and the Amtrak train was running in a facing-point direction.

> Atk was cleared through the area. It was running
> in "Dark Territory" rules which allowed 59 mph for
> passenger. (49 for freight. )

Correct, using TWC-D operating method.

> For some reason, (that is what we have to wait
> for) Atk found the x-over switch lined into the
> side of the CSX train in the siding. Atk was
> unable to stop.

No. Amtrak was lined into the storage track that had a CSX freight train parked about 600 feet from the switch.

> I wouldhave to see the TO ATK had and why he was
> allowed beyond restricted speed in non inspected
> track where the signal system was B/O.

It wasn't BO. It was suspended. In other words, it was a planned outage, not a failure. That permitted running under Track Warrant Control as though it was dark territory, according to CSX rules.

> My only dealing with CSX was at Lee Hall and they
> ran a pretty slack outfit.

Conjecture on my part but I don't think E. Hunter Harrison and his policies has helped the reputation of the Chicken Shi+ Xpress.



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Graham Buxton 02-04-2018 - 18:26
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Geob 02-04-2018 - 19:12
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) JOHN 02-04-2018 - 19:53
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-04-2018 - 20:53
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Hoghead 1 02-04-2018 - 21:13
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-04-2018 - 21:16
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) RRACS 02-06-2018 - 07:56
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Hot Water 02-06-2018 - 07:59
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 08:34
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-06-2018 - 11:09
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 11:27
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-06-2018 - 11:35
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 11:45
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-06-2018 - 11:58
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Dr Zarkoff 02-06-2018 - 12:36
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-06-2018 - 12:51
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 14:09
  Re: Amtrak in SC-Restricted Speed? BOB2 02-06-2018 - 14:57
  Re: Amtrak in SC-Restricted Speed? OPRRMS 02-06-2018 - 15:45
  Re: Amtrak in SC-Restricted Speed? tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 16:23
  Re: Amtrak in SC-Restricted Speed? OldPoleBurner 02-07-2018 - 12:15
  Re: Amtrak in SC-Restricted Speed? Dr Zarkoff 02-07-2018 - 13:45
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) Dr Zarkoff 02-06-2018 - 16:10
  Re: 59 mph, in unsingalled territory OMG! BOB2 02-06-2018 - 17:14
  Re: 59 mph, in unsingalled territory OMG! tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 18:48
  Re: 100 years, actually over 17 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? BOB2 02-06-2018 - 19:36
  Re: 100 years, actually over 17 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? tundraboomer 02-06-2018 - 19:42
  Re: 100 years, actually over 175 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? BOB2 02-06-2018 - 20:39
  Re: 100 years, actually over 175 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? tundraboomer 02-07-2018 - 06:14
  Re: My poor logic, yeah right? BOB2 02-07-2018 - 08:35
  Re: My poor logic, yeah right? OPRRMS 02-07-2018 - 13:12
  Re: My poor logic, yeah right? OPRRMS 02-07-2018 - 13:32
  Re: Yep that was in the rule book but I never saw it used....and it's still a bad practice. BOB2 02-07-2018 - 15:34
  Re: Yep that was in the rule book but I never saw it used....and it's still a bad practice. OPRRMS 02-07-2018 - 17:28
  Re: Yep that was in the rule book but I never saw it used....and it's still a bad practice. OPRRMS 02-07-2018 - 18:10
  Re: My poor logic, yeah right? tundraboomer 02-07-2018 - 17:27
  Re: 100 years, actually over 17 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? OldPoleBurner 02-07-2018 - 13:16
  Re: 100 years, actually over 17 years and OMG we're still alllowing that kind of operation and these unnecessary deaths? Dr Zarkoff 02-07-2018 - 13:51
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) BOB2 02-04-2018 - 21:16
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) OPRRMS 02-04-2018 - 20:40
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) WILL 02-04-2018 - 20:59
  Re: NTSB says CSX switch 'lined & locked into siding' (re Amtrak in SC) RWS 02-04-2018 - 21:53
  Atk in SC Nudge 02-07-2018 - 18:21
  Re: Atk in SC OPRRMS 02-07-2018 - 18:36
  Re: Atk in SC tundraboomer 02-07-2018 - 19:15
  Re: Atk in SC Dr Zarkoff 02-07-2018 - 21:38
  Re: Atk in SC Finis 02-07-2018 - 20:46
  Re: Atk in SC Glen Icanberry 02-09-2018 - 03:55
  Re: Except that some of them feel it is safer to run at 59 when you turn them off, but only at restricted speed when they fail? BOB2 02-09-2018 - 07:47
  Re: Except that some of them feel it is safer to run at 59 when you turn them off, but only at restricted speed when they fail? tundraboomer 02-09-2018 - 08:14
  Re: Except that some of them feel it is safer to run at 59 when you turn them off, but only at restricted speed when they fail? OPRRMS 02-09-2018 - 10:50


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