Re: Cost and subsidies aside- That is not the theis that Noel is supposedly proposing, however....
Author: BOB2
Date: 05-10-2019 - 09:27

Front range is the kind of middle distance state corridor, with good size city pairs (Boulder, Pueblo, Denver) and limited air service competition, that can offer auto travel time competitive rail passenger services, in the I-25 corridor, with multiple daily trains. Yes, that could or would help generate additional connectivity at Pueblo and som marginal additional ridership for the SW Limited.

The folks lucky enough to be able to use the LD services in rural areas do like them, and they do have benefits for those folks and those communities. Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the long distance trains, I am not opposed to efforts to improve them, and reduce costs. There are a number of ways that could be done.

But, the political reality is that most of your "rural" Senators and Congressman are among those who are most opposed to Amtrak's subsidies to operate these very expensive routes. There are a handfull of notable exceptions, who would appreciate your vote, and who have used their power to keep those trains running.

Economically and politically the future of rail passenger travel in the US is in higher density short distance corridors, that can offer auto time competitive and price competitive high frequency service levels, which are able to "fill seats" and generate more "revenue seat miles", at a lower "marginal cost" per seat mile.

Noel is apparently (it's hard to tell since this thesis is so disjointed) claiming that since the SW goes from LA to Chicago, and each train serves more passengers than each Surfliner, that therefore it produces more "total" passenger mile revenue per train. He is right about that. What he apparently completely misses, is that it also produces much higher "total costs" per train, than each Surfliner does, too.

It's too bad that Noel didn't compute "marginal" revenue and "marginal" cost per passenger mile and give us that comparison between long distance and short distance trains. Then we'd be able to have an informed debate on his idea, that we should take long distance trains away from Amtrak, and if that would actually save any money.

Noel's thesis is not about the needs or benefits to rural folks for or from long distance rail services now provided to a handful of America's rural communities by Amtrak. He's arguing that it should be taken away from Amtrak and given to someone else to run....some unknown entity who would somehow magically do it better or cheaper. And, Noel makes no case about who that mysterious benefactor might be, or how that would be paid for, or by who...

It is this kind of nonsense, speculative whining, without any "actionable" outcome, and organizations like RailPac, where Noel is part of the "leadership", that equate top "priorities" like PHX via Welton, with the LAUPT run-through or the Coast Daylights, and omits things like the Salinas extensions, or Dumbarton, that makes me wonder if I should even bother to renew my RailPAC membership.

If every train fan "pipe dream" is a "priority", or an excuse to whine about Amtrak, without offering any "real" alternative, then no one you are going to have to get any political support from is really going to be very likely take your organization very seriously.



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  Should The Long Distance Trains Be Taken Away From Amtrak? Credit to T.O. 05-09-2019 - 23:48
  Re: Should The Long Distance Trains Be Taken Away From Amtrak? BOB2 05-10-2019 - 06:55
  Thanks to BOB Dash Two Roscoe 05-10-2019 - 07:33
  Cost and subsidies aside rural freight 05-10-2019 - 08:36
  Re: Cost and subsidies aside- That is not the theis that Noel is supposedly proposing, however.... BOB2 05-10-2019 - 09:27
  Re: Cost and subsidies aside o'toole's ghost 05-10-2019 - 09:51
  doesn't sound like you've done much rural existence ruralite 05-10-2019 - 10:53
  Re: doesn't sound like you've done much rural existence Vanderbilt 05-10-2019 - 12:03
  Re: doesn't sound like you've done much rural existence T37HC 05-10-2019 - 13:01
  Re: doesn't sound like you've done much rural existence keep in mind 05-10-2019 - 13:10
  Re: Wow, without Amtrak in rural America, it sounds so bleak.....? BOB2 05-10-2019 - 13:25
  Re: Wow, without Amtrak in rural America, it sounds so bleak.....? i never said it has to be every where 05-10-2019 - 14:01
  Re: So what constitures "within reason' when it comes to the subsidy you feel would benefit rural America? Compared to what?? BOB2 05-10-2019 - 14:36
  Re: So what constitures "within reason' when it comes to the subsidy you feel would benefit rural America? Compared to what?? last word for KIA 05-10-2019 - 16:51
  Re: Compared to what??? Things we can measure and count...not emotional sophistry.... BOB2 05-10-2019 - 18:06
  Empire Builder could use a rework space ships rule 05-10-2019 - 17:22
  Re: Empire Builder could use a rework BNSF1995 05-10-2019 - 17:50
  Re: doesn't sound like you've done much rural existence states 05-10-2019 - 17:07
  @ States The Capitolist 05-11-2019 - 18:50
  Re: @ States states 05-12-2019 - 06:39
  move those damn dams better yet 05-10-2019 - 11:29
  @ rural freight City Dude 05-11-2019 - 19:08
  Re: Should The Long Distance Trains Be Taken Away From Amtrak? BNSF1995 05-10-2019 - 17:49


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