Dr Zarkoff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Apparently Anticipate isn't in your vocab.
>
> Not when making moves on the railroad, no.

Just remember that this was about some flat switching video that Hutch posted...and Margaret commented on that incidentally didn't show any coupling up around a curve some 40 cars back, you moved the goal posts because you couldn't understand comprehend my description.

Bollocks: You know are going to Kick, you can see the Shunter about to move so you've got the independant reduced to just holding, and you've got the other hand on the throttle....
>
> > Why you insist on waiting for the ground crew to
> signal your every move precisely when kicking cars
> and it's obvious you have to perform certain moves
> to under take a series of kicks.
>
> For the simple reason that you can never know when
> they want to start a kicking movement.

Bollocks: At my first yard, every time we pulled half of 1 (or 2 road) up the backshunt and as soon as we stop, we're going to give a series of ease-ups to kick off, Shunter goes in to get the Hook, he actually went out of sight between the wagons to do that, no cut levers on the end to pull, and he would come out and walk back to get the next drop and repeat, and repeat. Of course he will be signalling and he will also be listening to the slack but our difference is we were ready for it, anticipating unlike Your description of just sitting there with the brakes fully on .... waiting, oh well Espee got all day I guess.

>
> > So tell me what you do when the guy on the
> ground messes up and you can see it happening in
> advance??
>
> Phooey, this assumes you're a mind reader. Give
> him/them a single toot on the whistle or respond
> by moving the engine very slowly. With radios this
> is frequently called "that'll do. different other
> back them up".
>
> > You do realise he will emerge and give you stop
> eh. Zark's description of how to you kick cars was
> straight word from the instructor. :) Now when the
> radio was used yes you'd be correct, but on hand
> signals nah, the head went outside and you watched
> both the signal and the remaining distance.
>
> I can tell you've never railroaded and used hand
> signals because most of the time you couldn't see
> the remaining distance. And if you anticipated an
> acted on what the crew was doing, they would
> highly resent it. About the second time the cars
> started moving without their giving a signal to do
> so, things would be 'splained to you in no
> uncertain terms (because you could chop off an
> arm, leg, or head). Do things like this enough,
> and they will try to knock you off the seatbox.

Hell you are absolutely correct, by gosh, just what gave me away? Never Railroaded in my life you're correct.

However I was a Railwayman :) starting out in Loco, 7th Feb. 1977 using handsignals right up to one-man shunt crewing in 1990. I also did the Train Operator(Conductor without an orchestra) work on two-man trains after the Guard's were taken off the back in late '86. It will piss you no doubt that I aced the TO shunting school at that time, partly in fact due to the Assistant(Diesel fireman) usually did the reductions at Tablet-locked sidings during my Woodville days.

You also seem totally unaware that the reducing separation distance usually can be seen with the Shadows cast on the ballast on all but cloudy days, and by the yard lights. Only when the adjacent tracks are full then that cut the lighting down.

Since I use my real name and you hide behind a pretentious handle.... so you may put your $$$ where your knowledge is and google the phone number of, or email Kiwirail.co.nz and ask to speak to any of the following at Palmerston North Freight Terminal.
Ross Adams former Train Controller (dispatcher CTC), nowadays the Terminal Manager.
John Grant Enginedriver started with me in '77 nowadays Team Leader (Road Foreman).
Simon Stitchbury, Enginedriver nowadays overseeing Crew Training.
Alan Adams former Enginedriver with me in Woodville by early '78 now Train Performance Specialist. However be warned that if you reach Allan after confirming my existence and service, he will tell you all about Anticipating :)

For some reason I'll think you'll pass on doing the above, eh!! BTW my Instructor from my Enginedriver's course is still alive, you want his number so you can call him direct?

>
> > Ever seen a chain of passers relaying
> handsignals? What do you then since there is the
> Human delay in changing being passed down the
> chain, you watch the furthest man you see.
>
> Yes, many many times, and you're completely wrong.
> There is very little delay between the actions of
> the various crew members because of what is called
> the "chorus girl effect", which is similar to how
> birds in a flock move in such a coordinated
> fashion.
>
Chorus girls eh, cough cough! Ahem, I'll never get that image out of my head from now on.


>
> READING books??? I bet one you didn't read was
> Peter Josserand's Rights of Trains, which is
> considered a bible of railroad operating rules.
> He specifically says you can't read a book and
> then know the subject. You have to read it, do the
> work, go back and read it again, etc, etc. When I
> was a switchman, it took about 3-5 years of
> working jobs daily to pick up the rhythm of the
> craft.
>
Actually I have, my teenage years pen pal from the US sent me his dog eared copy: Thayer Palmer, who was a UP Agent from the Eastern Divison: but was quickly told in 1977 by the revered instructor Jack Dean that I should forget that Yank **** pronto, lest I fail the Loco Trainee school. You see NZR had an excellent training scheme that actually taught the employees. I was surprised to find out just how little the US loco crews knew about their loco.

> > Another feller was on the Espee, named Hardisty,
> worked out of Sparks Yard,
>
> Ahh, the "Bone Crusher". Nice character reference.
> Last time I saw him was in KFS, and we avoided
> each other.

Klamath Falls I presume
>
> > Then there are the several Drivers that went up
> to work on the Wisconsin Central after they took
> over the NZR, a couple of those I caught up with
> on their holidays back here every now and then.
>
> Using the WC as a character reference in a
> discussion with two retired RR union men does not
> speak well for you.

Well that US Railroad did purchase and gut the NZR for every last cent without spending a dime here on track maint. And they did indeed need real Engindrivers up there to show just how it's Done, just like the Iron Ore roads in Northern Australia that came hunting our Drivers back in the 70's, and still do today :)
Most of the guys who went to the WC eventually came home disgruntled by the working conditions in the cabs, and the weird, away from home layovers. However Bruce Rogers is still up there running for the Bnsf, maybe you can track him down for a reference as well?
>
> You should stop trying to be such a US RR
> sexologist because you aren't pulling it off.

Oh I don't know, seem to be doing a great job by far, go read this POST on the NGDF and my answer a couple of replies later :)

Could you pull that one off, Doctor?


Cheers Pal

Chris
in New Zealand