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Re: John Bruce and other dips
Author: OPRRMS
Date: 12-06-2008 - 18:16
John Bruce Wrote:
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> OPRRMS wrote "My understanding is that Sanchez had
> a clean discipline record." Well, quite possibly
> -- I read on another board that Veolia/Metrolink
> crews had essentially dropped the practice of
> calling signals. This is borne out by I believe a
> report in the LA Times that immediately after the
> Chatsworth tragedy, Veolia sent out an internal
> memo saying that crews really ought to be calling
> signals after all.
So using your logic, all those crews that hadn't been calling signals ran into something?
> So we have what by the accounts that get into
> these kinds of discussions a system-wide laxity
> over calling signals. Can't see any other good
> explanation -- the flashing yellow and the yellow
> prior to the stop at Chatsworth weren't called,
> for instance. Both Sanchez and the conductor were
> in violation of that rule.
The audio recording of the radio recorded the engineer calling and the conductor repeating the flashing yellow. Didn't prevent the collision from happening.
> Now, if this were a general thing, OPRRMS,
> wouldn't a supervisor out on the road notice it on
> his or her radio?
Can't say, because I don't know if what you allege is actually correct.
> Apparently railfans were
> completely aware of it on their scanners.
Oh, the railfans were aware of it. In that case, you should suggest to SCRRA's board that they make the railfans supervisors.
> Seems
> to me that lots of rule violations must have been
> going unnoticed -- so how could a lot of these
> guys help but have clean discipline records? I
> mean, just from the events of the past month or
> so, seems like guys on Amtrak and Metrolink both
> have clean discipline records, right up until they
> sideswipe a freight after not reducing speed at a
> yellow, or until they fail a banner test, or until
> they back up after running a red down in sunny
> Florida.
So, what's your plan to solve these problems?
> You've said they can't be everywhere -- but they
> gotta be somewhere.
What's your solution?
-------------------------------------------------------
> OPRRMS wrote "My understanding is that Sanchez had
> a clean discipline record." Well, quite possibly
> -- I read on another board that Veolia/Metrolink
> crews had essentially dropped the practice of
> calling signals. This is borne out by I believe a
> report in the LA Times that immediately after the
> Chatsworth tragedy, Veolia sent out an internal
> memo saying that crews really ought to be calling
> signals after all.
So using your logic, all those crews that hadn't been calling signals ran into something?
> So we have what by the accounts that get into
> these kinds of discussions a system-wide laxity
> over calling signals. Can't see any other good
> explanation -- the flashing yellow and the yellow
> prior to the stop at Chatsworth weren't called,
> for instance. Both Sanchez and the conductor were
> in violation of that rule.
The audio recording of the radio recorded the engineer calling and the conductor repeating the flashing yellow. Didn't prevent the collision from happening.
> Now, if this were a general thing, OPRRMS,
> wouldn't a supervisor out on the road notice it on
> his or her radio?
Can't say, because I don't know if what you allege is actually correct.
> Apparently railfans were
> completely aware of it on their scanners.
Oh, the railfans were aware of it. In that case, you should suggest to SCRRA's board that they make the railfans supervisors.
> Seems
> to me that lots of rule violations must have been
> going unnoticed -- so how could a lot of these
> guys help but have clean discipline records? I
> mean, just from the events of the past month or
> so, seems like guys on Amtrak and Metrolink both
> have clean discipline records, right up until they
> sideswipe a freight after not reducing speed at a
> yellow, or until they fail a banner test, or until
> they back up after running a red down in sunny
> Florida.
So, what's your plan to solve these problems?
> You've said they can't be everywhere -- but they
> gotta be somewhere.
What's your solution?
