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Re: Passenger Rail in the US vs. Spain - Brace Yourself For Where Spain Started From
Author: let's nuance that a little
Date: 03-22-2023 - 20:46
Though it ends up much the same - US (Calif) is not Europe or Japan.
Population of Spain (per BOB2 above: 67 million); (per Wikipedia: 47,325,360)
Population of California (per Wikipedia: 39,185,605)
and just for fun: Population of Italy (per Wikipedia: 58,853,482
(all 2022-2023 estimates)
Area (sq miles, per Wikipedia)
Spain: 195,360
Italy: 116,310
California: 155,959 (land)
...so CA is about 1/2 way between Italy and Spain in area
Spain: European portion stretches from 36-44 deg. N latitude
Italy: Stretches from 35-47 deg. N latitude
California: Stretches from about 33.5-42 deg. N latitude
As We aren't Spain noted, Madrid is near the center of Spain, and Rome is near the center of Italy. California's capitol is well to the north of the center point (38.6 N). Most of the large cities in Italy and Spain are <400 miles apart. In California, the Bay Area and Los Angeles are about 400 miles apart, but the distances between other large cities (metro area of 1 million or more) are shorter - Bay Area-Sacramento about 100 miles; Bay Area and Sacramento to Fresno about 180 miles, LA-San Diego about 120 miles.
Economically, California is in the same ballpark as France, and much bigger than either Italy or Spain. California, of course, doesn't need to maintain its own defense, since the USA does that for them (at some cost).
So ignoring the US for argument sake, why can't California do HSR (even Brightline-style pseudo-HSR) and widespread railroad electrification at least connecting the nearer metro areas? Was starting with the hardest project and the biggest one, using politically rather than well-planned objectives and deliberately crippled funding, the best way to serve the most people? Rhetorical questions, but we're now saddled with the results.
Note also the difference in societies. Spain and Italy are on the poorer side of Europe, but still, in Europe. Use of trains has been standard practice for a long time, and never really went away. So HSR could be done incrementally, adding to an existing system of passenger rail lines biased toward electrified main lines. California, like most of the US, essentially started from scratch with a few state-supported regional trains in the 1980s-2000s, in a society that has long valued primarily private transportation and built an infrastructure to support it. So no, we're not like Europe.
California has made a lot of progress, starting from near zero, but if not for the politics I doubt we would be having serious true-HSR discussions for another 50 years yet. So expect things to drag along slowly. None of us Boomers will likely live long enough for the Valley stuff to extend beyond Merced to Bakersfield. If technocrats had been in charge, we might have gotten something in the LOSSAN and perhaps Capitol corridors, better than we have and are likely to get now. Too bad, so sad, that didn't happen. What can be salvaged and how?
Population of Spain (per BOB2 above: 67 million); (per Wikipedia: 47,325,360)
Population of California (per Wikipedia: 39,185,605)
and just for fun: Population of Italy (per Wikipedia: 58,853,482
(all 2022-2023 estimates)
Area (sq miles, per Wikipedia)
Spain: 195,360
Italy: 116,310
California: 155,959 (land)
...so CA is about 1/2 way between Italy and Spain in area
Spain: European portion stretches from 36-44 deg. N latitude
Italy: Stretches from 35-47 deg. N latitude
California: Stretches from about 33.5-42 deg. N latitude
As We aren't Spain noted, Madrid is near the center of Spain, and Rome is near the center of Italy. California's capitol is well to the north of the center point (38.6 N). Most of the large cities in Italy and Spain are <400 miles apart. In California, the Bay Area and Los Angeles are about 400 miles apart, but the distances between other large cities (metro area of 1 million or more) are shorter - Bay Area-Sacramento about 100 miles; Bay Area and Sacramento to Fresno about 180 miles, LA-San Diego about 120 miles.
Economically, California is in the same ballpark as France, and much bigger than either Italy or Spain. California, of course, doesn't need to maintain its own defense, since the USA does that for them (at some cost).
So ignoring the US for argument sake, why can't California do HSR (even Brightline-style pseudo-HSR) and widespread railroad electrification at least connecting the nearer metro areas? Was starting with the hardest project and the biggest one, using politically rather than well-planned objectives and deliberately crippled funding, the best way to serve the most people? Rhetorical questions, but we're now saddled with the results.
Note also the difference in societies. Spain and Italy are on the poorer side of Europe, but still, in Europe. Use of trains has been standard practice for a long time, and never really went away. So HSR could be done incrementally, adding to an existing system of passenger rail lines biased toward electrified main lines. California, like most of the US, essentially started from scratch with a few state-supported regional trains in the 1980s-2000s, in a society that has long valued primarily private transportation and built an infrastructure to support it. So no, we're not like Europe.
California has made a lot of progress, starting from near zero, but if not for the politics I doubt we would be having serious true-HSR discussions for another 50 years yet. So expect things to drag along slowly. None of us Boomers will likely live long enough for the Valley stuff to extend beyond Merced to Bakersfield. If technocrats had been in charge, we might have gotten something in the LOSSAN and perhaps Capitol corridors, better than we have and are likely to get now. Too bad, so sad, that didn't happen. What can be salvaged and how?
