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Re: Could Golden Gate Bridge even get built today?
Author: Q
Date: 01-09-2010 - 13:55
Dear {revisionist} History,
That isn't history, that's HYSTERICAL !
I suppose there's a difference between history and hysteria, but the elite academia has long lost sight of it. Thus the rest of us were never exposed to real history during our formal educations. We are thus doomed to repeat it - And repeating it we are! -- in Buckets full!
These guys are right. The cracks may have begun to really show in the late seventies, but the causes were probably much sooner. The first I can recall for myself (no biased professor needed), was in the late fifties. An industry wide several month long general steel strike, literally trashed the economy - bigtime. Nobody did anything about it either - no authority. But why was that so surprising - any business dependent on steel had to curtail production or shut down, as did any secondary industry as well.
Prior to that, most everything seemed to be looking forward to a bright future, except maybe for railroads - but they were a special case, government sponsored and subsidized competition being their downfall. It was not regulation per se that did them in - it was unreasonable and discriminatory regulation that added to the downfall, caused by this unfair advantage given to their new competitors.
Prior to all that, there was slow moderate economic growth, and private innovation was looked forward too (remember Disney's "Tomorrowland"). A middle class husband and father could buy a modest middle class house on a single salary (HIS), could afford at least one car, and usually did not need health insurance in order to afford medical care when needed.
Look at us in the seventies. We did not really recover from the steel strike induced recession of 1959-60. We merely adjusted. There was high unemployment all though the sixties and seventies, the economy spurted up and down, the labor market remained a buyers market for decades, by the 70's the wage/price freeze was on, store shelves were becoming bare, it now took two middle class salaries to buy a modest house, serious debt was needed to buy any car, hospital bills were now bankrupting most people, thus health insurance became the norm. But it too became too expensive for retired people.
Now, early in the next century, the still spurting up and down economy, five recessions later: sports absolutely massive long term unemployment; de-funded innovation engines such as aerospace; virtually all business ventures and infrastructure progress are opposed on environmental grounds; few middle class persons can afford any house at all, even with two incomes; can't afford any car at all without gov't help, now can't even afford health insurance.
Railroads have been affected just as much. In 1955, a new freight car could be had for roughly $55,000, a passenger car for about $150,000. There were over two million employed by the industry; and railroads served all the way down to the retail level - even express and LCL traffic; in every nook and cranny of the country. And there was rail to rail competition in most places.
Now its less than 200,000 employees; a half mil per freight car; 2-3 million per passenger car; they still don't make enough to expand capacity without gov't help; and now they accept very little business less than a thousand miles; they resist even carload traffic; all while becoming totally irrelevant to most people and most businesses. Now there is little healthy rail to rail competition anywhere.
Yes sir - we have came a long way, baby!
I think one problem is that we (corporate America) have forgotten Henry Ford's axiom, that there must be a populace (the masses) that can actually afford what companies sell, in order for any company to prosper. Wages must keep up with prices, but they have not even come close in the last 50 years. The labor market has been dominated too much by one side. - it probably was in decline even then in the 50s!
Truth be told, another problem is that the mythical free market went away a long time ago. To truly be a free market, there must be equal power between many buyers and many sellers, but that hasn't been the case since the fifties in any American market.
And it ain't because of excessive regulation either, although it could have been. It is primarily due to monopoly power and too few competitors in most markets - and that is because of not enough regulation. Notice that the previous three presidents (20 years) all gutted regulations that were previously put in place because of hard learned lessons of history. This de-regulation craze was started by jimmy carter with the staggers act, which while needed, still went way too far in several respects.
Only someone wearing rose colored glasses, such as some railfans that post here, buys into the notion that the rail industry is healthy! It is in fact, dying just the same as the rest of all American industry is. And yes, whining or complaining about it really won't help much in the long run. But neither will denying it!
Unfortunately, in the current extremely self-centered American political myopia, nuttin' but nuttin' is going to be done about it by anybody - anytime soon. But in the mean time, we do need to wake up and recognize the problem and all its causes. Thus expressing our concerns and our thought here is hardly a bad thing.
If you want to keep on denying it, it's still a free country - just stop reading this thread - and go play with your Thomas the Tank Engine. That will work just fine; that is, until you can't afford train models anymore.
Anyone else notice the tripling of model railroad prices in just the last few years. My wage improvements, which have averaged about only 2% per year for decades - and will be 0% or less for the next four years, certainly won't keep up. The model railroad industry is probably headed for big trouble too!
That isn't history, that's HYSTERICAL !
I suppose there's a difference between history and hysteria, but the elite academia has long lost sight of it. Thus the rest of us were never exposed to real history during our formal educations. We are thus doomed to repeat it - And repeating it we are! -- in Buckets full!
These guys are right. The cracks may have begun to really show in the late seventies, but the causes were probably much sooner. The first I can recall for myself (no biased professor needed), was in the late fifties. An industry wide several month long general steel strike, literally trashed the economy - bigtime. Nobody did anything about it either - no authority. But why was that so surprising - any business dependent on steel had to curtail production or shut down, as did any secondary industry as well.
Prior to that, most everything seemed to be looking forward to a bright future, except maybe for railroads - but they were a special case, government sponsored and subsidized competition being their downfall. It was not regulation per se that did them in - it was unreasonable and discriminatory regulation that added to the downfall, caused by this unfair advantage given to their new competitors.
Prior to all that, there was slow moderate economic growth, and private innovation was looked forward too (remember Disney's "Tomorrowland"). A middle class husband and father could buy a modest middle class house on a single salary (HIS), could afford at least one car, and usually did not need health insurance in order to afford medical care when needed.
Look at us in the seventies. We did not really recover from the steel strike induced recession of 1959-60. We merely adjusted. There was high unemployment all though the sixties and seventies, the economy spurted up and down, the labor market remained a buyers market for decades, by the 70's the wage/price freeze was on, store shelves were becoming bare, it now took two middle class salaries to buy a modest house, serious debt was needed to buy any car, hospital bills were now bankrupting most people, thus health insurance became the norm. But it too became too expensive for retired people.
Now, early in the next century, the still spurting up and down economy, five recessions later: sports absolutely massive long term unemployment; de-funded innovation engines such as aerospace; virtually all business ventures and infrastructure progress are opposed on environmental grounds; few middle class persons can afford any house at all, even with two incomes; can't afford any car at all without gov't help, now can't even afford health insurance.
Railroads have been affected just as much. In 1955, a new freight car could be had for roughly $55,000, a passenger car for about $150,000. There were over two million employed by the industry; and railroads served all the way down to the retail level - even express and LCL traffic; in every nook and cranny of the country. And there was rail to rail competition in most places.
Now its less than 200,000 employees; a half mil per freight car; 2-3 million per passenger car; they still don't make enough to expand capacity without gov't help; and now they accept very little business less than a thousand miles; they resist even carload traffic; all while becoming totally irrelevant to most people and most businesses. Now there is little healthy rail to rail competition anywhere.
Yes sir - we have came a long way, baby!
I think one problem is that we (corporate America) have forgotten Henry Ford's axiom, that there must be a populace (the masses) that can actually afford what companies sell, in order for any company to prosper. Wages must keep up with prices, but they have not even come close in the last 50 years. The labor market has been dominated too much by one side. - it probably was in decline even then in the 50s!
Truth be told, another problem is that the mythical free market went away a long time ago. To truly be a free market, there must be equal power between many buyers and many sellers, but that hasn't been the case since the fifties in any American market.
And it ain't because of excessive regulation either, although it could have been. It is primarily due to monopoly power and too few competitors in most markets - and that is because of not enough regulation. Notice that the previous three presidents (20 years) all gutted regulations that were previously put in place because of hard learned lessons of history. This de-regulation craze was started by jimmy carter with the staggers act, which while needed, still went way too far in several respects.
Only someone wearing rose colored glasses, such as some railfans that post here, buys into the notion that the rail industry is healthy! It is in fact, dying just the same as the rest of all American industry is. And yes, whining or complaining about it really won't help much in the long run. But neither will denying it!
Unfortunately, in the current extremely self-centered American political myopia, nuttin' but nuttin' is going to be done about it by anybody - anytime soon. But in the mean time, we do need to wake up and recognize the problem and all its causes. Thus expressing our concerns and our thought here is hardly a bad thing.
If you want to keep on denying it, it's still a free country - just stop reading this thread - and go play with your Thomas the Tank Engine. That will work just fine; that is, until you can't afford train models anymore.
Anyone else notice the tripling of model railroad prices in just the last few years. My wage improvements, which have averaged about only 2% per year for decades - and will be 0% or less for the next four years, certainly won't keep up. The model railroad industry is probably headed for big trouble too!
