Re: High speed rail on C-span
Author: :Ernest H. Robl
Date: 07-21-2009 - 17:36

The often cited argument that HSR works in Europe because
"distances are closer" is totally bogus.

France's original TGV line was between Paris and Lyon,
two of the country's major cities. The distance between
them is approximately 265 miles. I think some TGV trains
now run the distance non-stop, but most make 2-3 intermediate
stops.

There are many major city pairs in the U.S. that are closer.
Washington, DC, to Richmond, VA, the state capital, is about
98 miles. Richmond-Raleigh, N.C. (another state capital) is
about 140 miles. Richmond-Charlotte, N.C. is about 311
miles.

Keep in mind that if there is fast (not HSR by European
standars) rail service between Washington, DC, and Charlotte,
NC, (About 400 miles) not everyone is going to ride the entire
distance. In fact many passengers would likely travel between
intermediate city pairs.

Amtrak now offers service between Washington, DC, and Charlotte,
NC on the Carolinian. Some people travel the entire distance,
but most travel shorter distances.

The state of North Carolina has long worked to get rail travel
between Raleigh and Charlotte to under three hours with more
than half a dozen intermediate stops. Several studies have
shown that three hours is basically drive-competitive. If the
time can be gotten to about 2.5 hours, trains would draw major
traffic away from driving -- especially if you consider other
benefits of train travel, such as being able to do work, read,
rest, etc.

The three-hour goal is basically here. Officially, the schedule
is still slightly over three hours, but unofficially trains have
made the trip right at three hours, given perfect conditions.

Right now, there are still several major bottlenecks, particularly
between Greensboro and Charlotte -- in the form of single-track
segments. The most important of these is in the process of being
double-tracked. Engineering work is underway to double-track
additional segments.

Right now, the combination of the Carolinian and Piedmont offers
morning and evening departures from each city in each direction.
By the end of the year, a third mid-day train pair will be added --
and if the Greensboro-High Point double tracking work is completed
by then, the train will run under three hours.

Right now, there is CTC all the way from Raleigh to Charlotte, with
a 79 mph limit on most segments. If you could raise the speed limit
to just 100 mph, which is doable with improved signaling, you could
then probably get to 2.5 hours even with the intermidate stops.
(Driving time now, with typical traffic is about three hours, though
with congestion, it is often longer.) This would be using the
existing rail corridor, though possibly adding some tracks.

(Keep in mind that some U.S. passenger trains ran at 100 mph in the
past.)


On the other hand, the segment of the proposed Southeast High Speed
RAil Corridor between Richmond and Raleigh is through large segments
of rural land and would likely us a mostly new alignment to take
maximum advantage of terrain. (There is an abandoned CSX corridor
covering part of the distance -- track removed but right of way
intact -- that would be used on some segments, but at other points
it makes more sense to use an alignment with more gentle curves and
grades.

If you can go really fast (100+ mph) between Richmond and Raleigh,
the trip would about 1.5 hours, compared to the nearly three hours
driving time now. Of course, it would make sense for the trains to
continue on to Charlotte -- even if Raleigh-Charlotte was initially
still only cabable of 79 mph.

Richmond and Charlotte are both major financial centers, with a
Federal Reserve bank in Richmond and the headquarters of several
major banks in Charlotte. If you could do the trip in three
hours by rail, that would not only be drive competitive (now
about six hours) but also flight competitive, once you figure that
the train would go from city center to city center -- while flying
involves trips to the airports, lots of waiting, and a trip back
into the city at the other end.

Yes, the banks in Charlotte are supporting HSR, just as they
supported the light rail system there.

-- Ernest



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  High speed rail on C-span Dilbert 07-17-2009 - 17:08
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Dave Smith 07-17-2009 - 18:37
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Graham Buxton 07-17-2009 - 19:43
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Tom H 07-17-2009 - 21:07
  Re: High speed rail on C-span TRS 07-17-2009 - 21:09
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Ernest H. Robl 07-18-2009 - 05:43
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Dave Smith 07-18-2009 - 10:03
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Rich Hunn 07-18-2009 - 11:33
  Re: High speed rail on C-span BOB2 07-18-2009 - 17:35
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Hipshot 07-18-2009 - 20:42
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Ross Hall 07-20-2009 - 17:52
  Re: High speed rail on C-span Cathy SMith 07-21-2009 - 16:25
  Re: High speed rail on C-span :Ernest H. Robl 07-21-2009 - 17:36


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