Oliver Spencer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The thread below regarding the Calif storms really
> made me laugh. As usual, towards the end, the
> thread deteriorated with trash talk about Mike
> Pechner and Trainorders. I've used both Altamont
> Press and Trainorders for years and never, never,
> nil, zilch, nada, has anyone on TO bashed Altamont
> Press or any of it's posters. I just don't
> understand why all the trash talk about TO. Both
> sites serve their own purpose and are both good
> sites. Altamont posters will respond that posts
> are deleted on TO. Well, I've noticed many posts
> here on Altamont that have been deleted too.
> What's wrong with the posters on here? Why can't
> you just stick to train talk and stop behaving
> like little spoiled brats?

Here's my $0.02:

First off, anyone can post anything here on AP because it's an "open" web site. Unlike TO's, you don't need a UserID and password, so AP is more-or-less a no holes barred kind of thing, where everyone is supposed to act like ladies and gentlemen, but often don't. Consequently, things can get out of control, especially when someone will post something to intentionally rile up certain other people. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Action = reaction. There are ways to fix this, but I suspect they're more than David wants to get involved with. And while he does delete posts from time to time, I doubt it's something he realishes spending time doing.

Now, about TO's. As background, I was asked to start posting there years ago on behalf of some management employees of my employer because they were concerned about some of the information that they were seeing posted. I was luke-warm to the idea, but went ahead. After it became a pay site, I continued to subscribe for several years, but eventually decided not to renew. Ironically, I got "terminated" hours before my subscripition expired.

What's always concerned me about these kind of web sites, TO's in particular, is that they tend to create and encourage situations and behaviour that can result in a negative effect on railbuffs and railroad employees. Anyone who's read TO's knows that from time to time threads appear after someone has been asked to leave railroad property or has been "turned in" by an employee. When I'd post a response explaining why such things happen, it would almost always get deleted. Criticism, constructive or other, isn't handled well by TO's owner or by those he enlists to moderate the site, when it's perceived to reflect negatively on the concept of the web site. I think it's an ego-related thing. I've never met TO's owner, but from what I've read, many who have, have had negative experiences with him.

"Me" makes some valid points regarding what goes on at TO's. I'm surprised he didn't mention the video some have dubbed "Mister Todd's Wild Ride," in which he was pacing a train while driving on UP's access road along the Palmdale Cutoff. There was enough concern about it causing a "Monkey See, Monkey Do" response that the UP Police Department got involved. It's just one example of the problems associated with the web site. More than one TO poster has had run-ins with law enforement while in the pursuit of their hobby; what appears on TO's encourages it.

Of course, Union Pacific sends out mixed messages: don't tresspass on railroad property (or even go near it), yet all the while it actively solicits your photos for its calendar, and employs its steam engines and "Heritage Fleet" that attracts railbuffs like moths to a flame. Seems to me there's a double standard there.