Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again?
Author: SP5103
Date: 03-31-2017 - 10:40

This is a bigger problem regarding shortage of crews. Way back when, if there was a seasonal or other traffic surge, the railroads could promote the senior experienced brakemen to conductors, and firemen to engineers, and then just hire off the street to fill the brakemen and fireman jobs. It would be unusual not to find at least one or two people on a regular job without at least 10-20 years experience. Now most of the Class 1s can only hire conductors, and have to train engineers out of the experienced conductors. Add to that the requirement to meet FRA requirements for both, the railroad can't quickly react to traffic increases.

Now look at how the railroad hires. For a Class 1 and many of the shortline groups, the entire hiring process is handled by a personnel manager. If you want a job, you have to figure out what they are looking for and if you might qualify. The recent trend seems to be looking for people with stable outdoor work history, preferably around heavy equipment (though Amtrak stresses public interaction/customer service experience for A/C), and ex-military, minorities and women get extra points. If you are in your 20s, 40+ or a white male - good luck! In some cases, they don't want anyone with experience, though Soo Line has been recruiting experienced conductors for many years.

Also consider the working conditions - you often have to play by the seniority and union rules, which I consider a necessity in dealing with many companies. Now your pay won't be too great, if you're working for most shortlines, or for the first 3-5 years on most union railroads. And you have sold your soul to them - to be available 7/24/365 on 1-2 hours call. If you were working steady, you used to be able to choose some days off, but with the new hours of service rules (that the unions fought for), as soon as you have 24 hours off (planned or unexpectedly), the clock resets and you're good for another 5-7 days. Look around and read either BNSF's or UP's policy for obtaining personal leave days or their attendance/discipline policy and you will soon realize you need an attorney and an accountant to do your job.

It used to be, once you had some seniority, you might be able to hold a decent position. Now many terminals (BNSF "Super pool") that regardless of seniority, you are basically workng in the same pool that works like an extra board as everyone else.

I did work on a shortline with a BNSF conductor that got laid off in the big oil traffic downturn a couple years ago. He had just gotten past his probationary period, so held his seniority. After many months and working a couple different jobs, he got recalled. After a few months, he was laid off again. Then months later, recalled. He did say that many of the UP employees did not return when recalled. I also worked with a BNSF engineer that had been laid off in Montana. After several months he was recalled, and the last I knew was still working. I met another former UP conductor trainee who claimed he made a mistake during his RCO training and was fired.

Railroading and many of the other jobs aren't the same what they were 10-25 years ago. It is getting harder and harder to find a decent blue collar job (as in pay, stability and company management) in America. The oil drilling/fracking business is starting to come back, and I've heard they are having problems finding employees. Basic issues - they aren't paying near the former boom wages, these aren't in places many people want to live and get paid just enough to get by, and too many got burned financially after the last bust - suddenly finding themselves unable to pay for the new pickup, house, wife and kids. Too many are hesitant about signing up for the next round.

Railroads are now investing a minimum of $15,000 to train a conductor (shortlines) with Class 1s claiming it more like 6 figures, yet the investors and accountants demand they operate with as few people as possible. Employees are looked at as liabilities rather than assets. And the railroads aren't smart enough to offer reserve boards or other incentives to keep as many employees working through temporary slow downs, or figure out how to improve working conditions to retain the ones they have. Then again, benefits have gotten so expensive it's now cheaper to work a few with overtime than to hire more employees.

Why do you think the railroads really haven't complained about the cost of PTC? They have every intention in running one person train crews using technology (if they ever get it to work).



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  Is UP going into another meltdown again? Mike 03-30-2017 - 17:44
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? A1 03-30-2017 - 19:37
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? RWS 03-30-2017 - 20:16
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? RR 03-31-2017 - 06:48
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? ex-BN 03-31-2017 - 07:08
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Mike 03-31-2017 - 08:31
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? SP5103 03-31-2017 - 10:40
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? David Dewey 03-31-2017 - 11:13
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? SP5103 03-31-2017 - 11:46
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? sledgehammer 03-31-2017 - 12:38
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Phat Phomar 03-31-2017 - 12:46
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Agent 99 03-31-2017 - 14:02
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? An Observer 03-31-2017 - 14:05
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? SP5103 03-31-2017 - 17:07
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? RR 03-31-2017 - 21:42
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? SP5103 04-02-2017 - 14:18
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Curt 03-31-2017 - 21:46
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? SP5103 04-02-2017 - 15:55
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? s 03-31-2017 - 14:29
  @ SP5103 City Railfan 03-31-2017 - 19:10
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Espee2472 03-31-2017 - 21:18
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Espee2472 03-31-2017 - 21:05
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Blanked 03-31-2017 - 21:47
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? YaYa 03-31-2017 - 22:11
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Espee2472 03-31-2017 - 22:47
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Espee2472 03-31-2017 - 22:42
  Re: Is UP going into another meltdown again? Mike 04-01-2017 - 06:43
  Re: Is UP.... Blinkie Nudge 04-01-2017 - 10:07
  Re: Is UP.... Blinkie Carol L Voss 04-01-2017 - 11:20
  Re: Is UP.... Blinkie An Observer 04-01-2017 - 12:49
  Re: Is UP.... Blinkie Fred 04-02-2017 - 07:51


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