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Re: SP2479 and Lenzen Roundhouse to Niles Canyon Railway
Author: Dead horse rides again
Date: 07-05-2021 - 10:37
FROM:
[www.rypn.org]
QUOTE:
Randy H
Post subject: Re: Golden Gate Museum to move in 2016
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:57 pm
Golden Gate Railroad museum was located in the former Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard in San Francisco for some years (it originally started in the San Mateo County Fairgrounds, where their SP Pacific, No 2472 was stuffed an mounted...) About 9 years ago, they lost their home in the shipyard as that facility was being cleaned up for a future housing development (the first of the new houses are about to be occupied)
GGRM found itself with lots of railroad equipment and no where to put it... The Pacific Locomotive Association offered space at their Niles Canyon Railway... they also helped prepare and move the collection. The move was not easy, and in the process the GGRM collection was rationalized. (lots of pieces found new homes)
GGRM had a SP mainline passenger train focus... With 2472 much of GGRM's public efforts were mainline excursions, particularly on the San Francisco-San Jose Caltrain commute line... it was publicly owned and willing to host the occasional trains. Much of what was disposed of did not closely match this focus, but some pieces of interest were lost...
PLA used the hospital move and efforts to move some of its equipment, stored in Oakland and Fremont to the canyon as well.
Once at Niles Canyon, new track was laid in the very tight Brightside Yard... It was hoped that the two groups would complement each other... PLA had a short line focus... but was operating on a former SP secondary mainline... had a connection to the UP line (former Western Pacific) through the canyon so the Pacific could escape if main line excursions were possible...
Brightside yard was very crowded... and crowding brought conflict, and as noted by a PLA board member, if there are two groups any conflict will be blamed on the other group... (he noted that this works both ways) The strengths each group had, instead of being complimentary, in fact became contentious. GGRM had a paid operations manager... PLA was all volunteer. GGRM was good at technically following rules like FRA car inspections, while PLA was good at getting a train together to operate on their railroad... (safely and within the less stringent rules found on an mostly isolated line...) and each complained about the other's style... Both complained about missing tools... (at the time there were thefts, later tied to a third party)
At the end of the first 5 year agreement the two groups were not cooperating well... (members of each groups were cooperating well within the turmoil) There was a real possibility of GGRM being evicted... if they didn't flee first... GGRM had not been able to run any mainline excursions (of course UP isn't friendly to steam by other operators, and Caltrain was booming now operating near 100 trains a day (plus freight), while rehabbing the system and didn't have capacity to host excursions. The GGRM/PLA agreement did offer some operating slots through the year on the Niles Canyon railway, but in my opinion, those didn't match the model GGRM envisioned, and were limited, under the supervision of another group (PLA, who control the railroad and properly need to supervise any operations on their property) and GGRM was not happy...
Rather than evict GGRM a new 5 year lease was signed, that included two joint committees... one to handle the day to day issues in the canyon, the second, called the "Futures Committee" to find a long term solution... Both committees met, and both made significant progress. Tensions eased... We (I was on the Futures Committee, the other members included 2 PLA and 2 GGRM board members, as well as other members of each, and one outside member... not aligned with either) though we had a ways to work out long term issues. In the end the GGRM executive board has announced that they intend to move.
I think the move is a mistake, and will take resources needed to build the organization and restore and maintain equipment. I think it is unlikely that they will find a better home, there isn't an identified site for them to move to which is not controlled by others... and control by others seems to be the 300lb gorilla in the room... I suspect that they will have to prune the collection again.
PLA and the Niles Canyon Railway will thrive with or without GGRM.
[www.rypn.org]
QUOTE:
Randy H
Post subject: Re: Golden Gate Museum to move in 2016
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:57 pm
Golden Gate Railroad museum was located in the former Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard in San Francisco for some years (it originally started in the San Mateo County Fairgrounds, where their SP Pacific, No 2472 was stuffed an mounted...) About 9 years ago, they lost their home in the shipyard as that facility was being cleaned up for a future housing development (the first of the new houses are about to be occupied)
GGRM found itself with lots of railroad equipment and no where to put it... The Pacific Locomotive Association offered space at their Niles Canyon Railway... they also helped prepare and move the collection. The move was not easy, and in the process the GGRM collection was rationalized. (lots of pieces found new homes)
GGRM had a SP mainline passenger train focus... With 2472 much of GGRM's public efforts were mainline excursions, particularly on the San Francisco-San Jose Caltrain commute line... it was publicly owned and willing to host the occasional trains. Much of what was disposed of did not closely match this focus, but some pieces of interest were lost...
PLA used the hospital move and efforts to move some of its equipment, stored in Oakland and Fremont to the canyon as well.
Once at Niles Canyon, new track was laid in the very tight Brightside Yard... It was hoped that the two groups would complement each other... PLA had a short line focus... but was operating on a former SP secondary mainline... had a connection to the UP line (former Western Pacific) through the canyon so the Pacific could escape if main line excursions were possible...
Brightside yard was very crowded... and crowding brought conflict, and as noted by a PLA board member, if there are two groups any conflict will be blamed on the other group... (he noted that this works both ways) The strengths each group had, instead of being complimentary, in fact became contentious. GGRM had a paid operations manager... PLA was all volunteer. GGRM was good at technically following rules like FRA car inspections, while PLA was good at getting a train together to operate on their railroad... (safely and within the less stringent rules found on an mostly isolated line...) and each complained about the other's style... Both complained about missing tools... (at the time there were thefts, later tied to a third party)
At the end of the first 5 year agreement the two groups were not cooperating well... (members of each groups were cooperating well within the turmoil) There was a real possibility of GGRM being evicted... if they didn't flee first... GGRM had not been able to run any mainline excursions (of course UP isn't friendly to steam by other operators, and Caltrain was booming now operating near 100 trains a day (plus freight), while rehabbing the system and didn't have capacity to host excursions. The GGRM/PLA agreement did offer some operating slots through the year on the Niles Canyon railway, but in my opinion, those didn't match the model GGRM envisioned, and were limited, under the supervision of another group (PLA, who control the railroad and properly need to supervise any operations on their property) and GGRM was not happy...
Rather than evict GGRM a new 5 year lease was signed, that included two joint committees... one to handle the day to day issues in the canyon, the second, called the "Futures Committee" to find a long term solution... Both committees met, and both made significant progress. Tensions eased... We (I was on the Futures Committee, the other members included 2 PLA and 2 GGRM board members, as well as other members of each, and one outside member... not aligned with either) though we had a ways to work out long term issues. In the end the GGRM executive board has announced that they intend to move.
I think the move is a mistake, and will take resources needed to build the organization and restore and maintain equipment. I think it is unlikely that they will find a better home, there isn't an identified site for them to move to which is not controlled by others... and control by others seems to be the 300lb gorilla in the room... I suspect that they will have to prune the collection again.
PLA and the Niles Canyon Railway will thrive with or without GGRM.
