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Re: handling with train air
Author: Dr Zarkoff
Date: 01-01-2014 - 14:27
Just a few comments . . .
>Those new ARMN reefers are monsters, especially when you see a string of them coupled to a GE 70 ton. Even empty, they weigh 45 tons and 50 tons on the 72 ft (IL). Brakes on cars and trains can react in a surprisingly wide range. Whether the cars have empty/load equipment makes a difference, and I don't think the ARMN cars do.
Generally speaking, freight cars are designed with a braking ratio on the order 70% empty and about ½ of that loaded (pass is usually 100% empty).
>Some cars just don't seem to have good brakes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are out of compliance.
Amen to that.
>In my opinion, engineers aren't being taught the basic physics behind air brakes, just what to do to comply with the rules. On train air, you have to always be ahead of the train, if you fall behind then it becomes a mess. The trick isn't to run the train the same every day, but how to safely run it when thing are different and how to recognize and react when things go wrong.
Heartily concur.
>Years ago I was an engineer on a shortline. The conductor insisted on running one day, and he did have a student card. We came off trackage rights, made a hard left turn onto a detour, climbed out of a slough crossing a state highway, the dropped a little and made a hard right turn before ending up on our original alignment of 60# rail, all in less than a mile. Our loaded trains were restricted to 25-27 loads, so they all handled about the same across this part of the line. It took run 8 to get over the highway, and I told the conductor that after he finished blowing the horn for the crossing to make a minimum reduction, bail off, and reduce the throttle as needed to hold 10 mph. Instead he chose not to make the brake application but to just reduce the throttle as the train gained speed. I kept yelling at him to set some air, he just kept backing off the throttle until he grabbed some air. We hit the curve doing about 15 mph and by then he had 15-20 pounds of air drawn off. If he had done what I told him, we would have held 10 mph on a minimum reduction without any problems.
Students operate a locomotive at the pleasure of the engineer, not the other way around because that student is operating on the engineer's license.Whenever I had a student who failed to follow suggestions in key situations like this, they were out of the seat right then and there. If they refused to get out, BIG HOLE, and then he/she got to explain the delays incurred to the offeeshuls.
>Just like there are places you learn to grab some more throttle, there are places where you grab the air. In some instances, it is not unreasonable to set some air before you even start to move. I would rather burn a little fuel shoving against brakes than have a move get away from me. It also makes a difference in what the weather or rail conditions are. If it is below zero, you had better keep 10 psi on he engine brakes the whole time you are switching or you will not stop.
In this day and age of new-wave train handling on the Class 1s, you use the dynamics all the time or risk being assessed a level of discipline.
>Rather than trust opinions found on an internet blog, I suggest you ask your DSLE about the problem since that is their job.
When going down grades using air, I'm not sure I'd trust today's DSLEs. Too many 90-day wonders crammed too full of book-learning.
SP5103 is right about trusting what you read on discussion groups like this because there is no way to accredit what guys like us tell you until you can relate to what we talk about after having some experiences under your belt. 5103 is primarily a shortline type: I worked for class 1s (frt and pass) my whole career. So what we relate regarding train and air brake handling differs here and there. This isn't intended to be derogatory, because the practices on each differ, particularly when comparing pre-1990 and post-1990 class 1 operating policies, but some will inevitably read this in.
Today's class 1s don't permit using air brakes sufficiently often enough to get a good feel for what they're going to do in any given situation.
>Those new ARMN reefers are monsters, especially when you see a string of them coupled to a GE 70 ton. Even empty, they weigh 45 tons and 50 tons on the 72 ft (IL). Brakes on cars and trains can react in a surprisingly wide range. Whether the cars have empty/load equipment makes a difference, and I don't think the ARMN cars do.
Generally speaking, freight cars are designed with a braking ratio on the order 70% empty and about ½ of that loaded (pass is usually 100% empty).
>Some cars just don't seem to have good brakes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are out of compliance.
Amen to that.
>In my opinion, engineers aren't being taught the basic physics behind air brakes, just what to do to comply with the rules. On train air, you have to always be ahead of the train, if you fall behind then it becomes a mess. The trick isn't to run the train the same every day, but how to safely run it when thing are different and how to recognize and react when things go wrong.
Heartily concur.
>Years ago I was an engineer on a shortline. The conductor insisted on running one day, and he did have a student card. We came off trackage rights, made a hard left turn onto a detour, climbed out of a slough crossing a state highway, the dropped a little and made a hard right turn before ending up on our original alignment of 60# rail, all in less than a mile. Our loaded trains were restricted to 25-27 loads, so they all handled about the same across this part of the line. It took run 8 to get over the highway, and I told the conductor that after he finished blowing the horn for the crossing to make a minimum reduction, bail off, and reduce the throttle as needed to hold 10 mph. Instead he chose not to make the brake application but to just reduce the throttle as the train gained speed. I kept yelling at him to set some air, he just kept backing off the throttle until he grabbed some air. We hit the curve doing about 15 mph and by then he had 15-20 pounds of air drawn off. If he had done what I told him, we would have held 10 mph on a minimum reduction without any problems.
Students operate a locomotive at the pleasure of the engineer, not the other way around because that student is operating on the engineer's license.Whenever I had a student who failed to follow suggestions in key situations like this, they were out of the seat right then and there. If they refused to get out, BIG HOLE, and then he/she got to explain the delays incurred to the offeeshuls.
>Just like there are places you learn to grab some more throttle, there are places where you grab the air. In some instances, it is not unreasonable to set some air before you even start to move. I would rather burn a little fuel shoving against brakes than have a move get away from me. It also makes a difference in what the weather or rail conditions are. If it is below zero, you had better keep 10 psi on he engine brakes the whole time you are switching or you will not stop.
In this day and age of new-wave train handling on the Class 1s, you use the dynamics all the time or risk being assessed a level of discipline.
>Rather than trust opinions found on an internet blog, I suggest you ask your DSLE about the problem since that is their job.
When going down grades using air, I'm not sure I'd trust today's DSLEs. Too many 90-day wonders crammed too full of book-learning.
SP5103 is right about trusting what you read on discussion groups like this because there is no way to accredit what guys like us tell you until you can relate to what we talk about after having some experiences under your belt. 5103 is primarily a shortline type: I worked for class 1s (frt and pass) my whole career. So what we relate regarding train and air brake handling differs here and there. This isn't intended to be derogatory, because the practices on each differ, particularly when comparing pre-1990 and post-1990 class 1 operating policies, but some will inevitably read this in.
Today's class 1s don't permit using air brakes sufficiently often enough to get a good feel for what they're going to do in any given situation.
