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Re: Amtrak train crash in Philly (correction)
Author: SP5103
Date: 05-14-2015 - 09:58
Sorry - mistakenly hit the post button so this is a corrected repost of above.
Based on available info, I don't think there is any argument that the train was going too fast to safely traverse the curve. The reason it was going too fast is still undetermined.
As far as the engineer, in the event he was potentially at fault then he may be subject to criminal prosecution for at least multiple charges of manslaughter. Even if he didn't have amnesia, if it was you wouldn't you use your 5th amendment rights unless you were offered immunity from prosecution or could prove it was not your fault?
The news has began to pick up that the conductor is equally responsible for the safe operation of the train and also question their actions or lack thereof. Have you ever worked a passenger train? I have, and it isn't that easy to keep track of exactly where the train is and what's going on while dealing with taking tickets and providing customer service. Remember there are plenty of passengers that will complain about you not giving them the service they demand versus if you are observing railroad operating rules.
The question of a single person in the cab has come up, and been dismissed by one of the "experts" who said a second crew member could also be a distraction rather than a double check. Wonder if the airlines know this? Crew resource management only works if there is a crew instead of just one person.
It is also being suggested that the engineer was speeding to make up time due to some slow orders. Typical passenger schedules require the engineer to operate the train at nearly 100% acceleration and deceleration, so the only way you can gain time back is to either be able to make shorter station stops or push how far you approach a speed restriction before hitting the brakes. At 106 mph you would be moving at about 155 feet per second, so assuming you needed at least a mile to slow from 100 to 50 you would be slowing in 34 seconds. If you happened to be distracted (job related or not), or had a partial or full braking failure, you could easily hit a speed restriction too hot. Dynamics and blended braking are not fail safe and do fail without warning often requiring an engineer to recognize it and take immediate action.
The politicians are making claims of the need for infrastructure investment, yet they are the same ones that mandated PTC without funding it or even directing the FCC to set aside the communications bandwith needed, and they have insisted that Amtrak maintain a certain level of service without providing the capital resources for it. Much of Amtrak's budget is used to subsidize operating losses of mandated service. Another statement I had to laugh at is that Amtrak's NEC is "profitable". I recall reading a paper a few years ago that did say that the NEC does come close to covering their operating costs, but if you figure the capital costs it is a horrific financial failure and actually drains capital from off corridor operations.
If this was operator error, the NTSB shouldn't need more than 6 months to issue their report. If there are additional issues, then no more than a year. I can tell you right now what the cause was - "Brakes failed to apply in time." I can also tell you what the NTSB will conclude - "PTC would have prevented this accident." (It might have, I wonder if it can solve global climate change and create world peace too?) Even if PTC is in effect, we will still have accidents due to other factors or due to PTC itself. PTC has to be designed, installed and maintained correctly, and remember that computer operating systems and software are only 98-99% accurate which is considered "acceptable". The airline industry is already finding that as more systems are becoming automated the pilot skills have deteriorated to the point they don't always recognize a technology failure or have the skills to manually correct the situation. A news wag already questioned why trains can't be automated like a Google car, and no doubt PTC and Trip-Optimizer could allow this. Can we really expect an engineer to only have a big red STOP button as their only control?
I think the engineer has already been convicted by public opinion. Few people, especially politicians, newscasters and their "experts" truly understand railroading.
Based on available info, I don't think there is any argument that the train was going too fast to safely traverse the curve. The reason it was going too fast is still undetermined.
As far as the engineer, in the event he was potentially at fault then he may be subject to criminal prosecution for at least multiple charges of manslaughter. Even if he didn't have amnesia, if it was you wouldn't you use your 5th amendment rights unless you were offered immunity from prosecution or could prove it was not your fault?
The news has began to pick up that the conductor is equally responsible for the safe operation of the train and also question their actions or lack thereof. Have you ever worked a passenger train? I have, and it isn't that easy to keep track of exactly where the train is and what's going on while dealing with taking tickets and providing customer service. Remember there are plenty of passengers that will complain about you not giving them the service they demand versus if you are observing railroad operating rules.
The question of a single person in the cab has come up, and been dismissed by one of the "experts" who said a second crew member could also be a distraction rather than a double check. Wonder if the airlines know this? Crew resource management only works if there is a crew instead of just one person.
It is also being suggested that the engineer was speeding to make up time due to some slow orders. Typical passenger schedules require the engineer to operate the train at nearly 100% acceleration and deceleration, so the only way you can gain time back is to either be able to make shorter station stops or push how far you approach a speed restriction before hitting the brakes. At 106 mph you would be moving at about 155 feet per second, so assuming you needed at least a mile to slow from 100 to 50 you would be slowing in 34 seconds. If you happened to be distracted (job related or not), or had a partial or full braking failure, you could easily hit a speed restriction too hot. Dynamics and blended braking are not fail safe and do fail without warning often requiring an engineer to recognize it and take immediate action.
The politicians are making claims of the need for infrastructure investment, yet they are the same ones that mandated PTC without funding it or even directing the FCC to set aside the communications bandwith needed, and they have insisted that Amtrak maintain a certain level of service without providing the capital resources for it. Much of Amtrak's budget is used to subsidize operating losses of mandated service. Another statement I had to laugh at is that Amtrak's NEC is "profitable". I recall reading a paper a few years ago that did say that the NEC does come close to covering their operating costs, but if you figure the capital costs it is a horrific financial failure and actually drains capital from off corridor operations.
If this was operator error, the NTSB shouldn't need more than 6 months to issue their report. If there are additional issues, then no more than a year. I can tell you right now what the cause was - "Brakes failed to apply in time." I can also tell you what the NTSB will conclude - "PTC would have prevented this accident." (It might have, I wonder if it can solve global climate change and create world peace too?) Even if PTC is in effect, we will still have accidents due to other factors or due to PTC itself. PTC has to be designed, installed and maintained correctly, and remember that computer operating systems and software are only 98-99% accurate which is considered "acceptable". The airline industry is already finding that as more systems are becoming automated the pilot skills have deteriorated to the point they don't always recognize a technology failure or have the skills to manually correct the situation. A news wag already questioned why trains can't be automated like a Google car, and no doubt PTC and Trip-Optimizer could allow this. Can we really expect an engineer to only have a big red STOP button as their only control?
I think the engineer has already been convicted by public opinion. Few people, especially politicians, newscasters and their "experts" truly understand railroading.
