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Re: Meanwhile for the adults who want facts, and not just spin on EV ranges? You are an outlier in the observed population being sampled FUD.....
Author: BOB2
Date: 09-30-2024 - 15:33
FUD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah Bob, EVs (and hybrids), driven reasonably,
> actually do get better "fuel" economy in town than
> on the highway. We used to call constant-speed
> freeway driving (keeping up with traffic, so,
> above 60 even back in the National 55 days) the
> "EV-killer cycle" because of the high, constant
> power demand (from aero drag) with little
> opportunity for any energy recovery from regen. In
> town, speeds are lower so aero drag is much lower,
> and regen has a chance to recover some energy when
> slowing (as with dynamic braking in a diesel -
> which is regen that just heats resistors - you
> still need friction brakes to completely stop and
> hold the vehicle, in most cases). Yes, you usually
> recover at best about half of the energy expended
> to accelerate to a given speed from regen, but
> that's better than with ICE where you recover none
> of it, and that matters in town.
>
> Personal experience with a couple of EVs/hybrids -
> had a Bolt and have a Prius. Both do in fact get
> better gas mileage in town and in stop n go
> commute driving if you drive reasonably; of
> course, if you're a binary throttle and brake user
> as many in the left lane are, all bets are off,
> but I'm generally not one of those.
>
> EPA mpg for that old Prius was around 50 in town
> (must not have been MY town - I saw the best mpg
> when driving in Berkeley - but the high 40s I
> usually see ain't bad) and about 45 highway (I
> usually do beat that, especially if I hold around
> 70 or less). EPA "MPGe" for my old Bolt was about
> 119; that's consistent with just under 4
> miles/kwh, which I got in town. I don't remember
> them publishing the highway number (119 was the
> combined city+hwy), but it certainly was less.
Unfortunately FUD, I tend to be more "conservative" and/or maybe just more "realistic" in making my choices in which estimation parameters and should be use when assessing the behavior to the driving "population" we are collecting the sample data from (as is this summary of the analysis that I posted).
Such a conservative "all users" sampling strategy which gives us the full range of "observed" driving behaviors is the one I find tends to better predict actual "real world" "on-average" and/or "aggregate" impacts.
I prefer to use the full range of observed behaviors, and to not wistfully rely on the most optimal operational and speed parameters for optimal performance to make my assessments, as this tends to not represent the mean, median, nor mode of most observed driving behavior in the real world.
Therefore, I do not expect that the H2 Arrow trains will run 1700 miles between "fill ups" just because they did it on a test run. I expect that impacts to range on EV will depend on the range of actual observed driver behavior under real operating conditions. Optimal speed in free flow range for most EV's is somewhere between 35 and 45 depending on wind resistance, and how many arterials actually operate for any distances in already densely congested urbanized environments.
Your behavior, like mine in some cases, is an "outlier", as you have more knowledge to better guide your actions. I don't travel at all on some routes at certain times of the day because I'm a more "rational" than average consumer who "knows" that on average the traffic will most likely suck.
And, as we have all "observed" in the "real world" there are plenty of drivers out there who try to maximize their EV ran on arterials, on freeways, and even in carpool and HOT lanes, by dawdling and blocking everyone else, or by speed setting at 50 mph. in the carpool lane.
And some of those folks driving their Tesla at 50 mph. in the carpool lane probably spend a lot of time wondering why all of those other hundred and fifty cars behind then are honking and flipping them off, too?
Meanwhile, nice pitch. I like the angle of that particular spin you gave to the ball in this one...
I just tend to do my more mundane and conservative style of planning based on what the population of real people are actually observed to do, and not just on what we wish they would do....
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah Bob, EVs (and hybrids), driven reasonably,
> actually do get better "fuel" economy in town than
> on the highway. We used to call constant-speed
> freeway driving (keeping up with traffic, so,
> above 60 even back in the National 55 days) the
> "EV-killer cycle" because of the high, constant
> power demand (from aero drag) with little
> opportunity for any energy recovery from regen. In
> town, speeds are lower so aero drag is much lower,
> and regen has a chance to recover some energy when
> slowing (as with dynamic braking in a diesel -
> which is regen that just heats resistors - you
> still need friction brakes to completely stop and
> hold the vehicle, in most cases). Yes, you usually
> recover at best about half of the energy expended
> to accelerate to a given speed from regen, but
> that's better than with ICE where you recover none
> of it, and that matters in town.
>
> Personal experience with a couple of EVs/hybrids -
> had a Bolt and have a Prius. Both do in fact get
> better gas mileage in town and in stop n go
> commute driving if you drive reasonably; of
> course, if you're a binary throttle and brake user
> as many in the left lane are, all bets are off,
> but I'm generally not one of those.
>
> EPA mpg for that old Prius was around 50 in town
> (must not have been MY town - I saw the best mpg
> when driving in Berkeley - but the high 40s I
> usually see ain't bad) and about 45 highway (I
> usually do beat that, especially if I hold around
> 70 or less). EPA "MPGe" for my old Bolt was about
> 119; that's consistent with just under 4
> miles/kwh, which I got in town. I don't remember
> them publishing the highway number (119 was the
> combined city+hwy), but it certainly was less.
Unfortunately FUD, I tend to be more "conservative" and/or maybe just more "realistic" in making my choices in which estimation parameters and should be use when assessing the behavior to the driving "population" we are collecting the sample data from (as is this summary of the analysis that I posted).
Such a conservative "all users" sampling strategy which gives us the full range of "observed" driving behaviors is the one I find tends to better predict actual "real world" "on-average" and/or "aggregate" impacts.
I prefer to use the full range of observed behaviors, and to not wistfully rely on the most optimal operational and speed parameters for optimal performance to make my assessments, as this tends to not represent the mean, median, nor mode of most observed driving behavior in the real world.
Therefore, I do not expect that the H2 Arrow trains will run 1700 miles between "fill ups" just because they did it on a test run. I expect that impacts to range on EV will depend on the range of actual observed driver behavior under real operating conditions. Optimal speed in free flow range for most EV's is somewhere between 35 and 45 depending on wind resistance, and how many arterials actually operate for any distances in already densely congested urbanized environments.
Your behavior, like mine in some cases, is an "outlier", as you have more knowledge to better guide your actions. I don't travel at all on some routes at certain times of the day because I'm a more "rational" than average consumer who "knows" that on average the traffic will most likely suck.
And, as we have all "observed" in the "real world" there are plenty of drivers out there who try to maximize their EV ran on arterials, on freeways, and even in carpool and HOT lanes, by dawdling and blocking everyone else, or by speed setting at 50 mph. in the carpool lane.
And some of those folks driving their Tesla at 50 mph. in the carpool lane probably spend a lot of time wondering why all of those other hundred and fifty cars behind then are honking and flipping them off, too?
Meanwhile, nice pitch. I like the angle of that particular spin you gave to the ball in this one...
I just tend to do my more mundane and conservative style of planning based on what the population of real people are actually observed to do, and not just on what we wish they would do....
