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Re: All about trains -- Ha!
Author: Juppo
Date: 05-31-2012 - 12:28
Oh Bother Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Progressives are communists? How?
>
> A better question is how do you keep calling
> others who disagree with you, "Ignorant"; while
> so grandly displaying your own ignorance! Seems
> almost as though you are a product of a California
> education - or at least one just as bad.
>
> Granted, the use of the word "Communist" here may
> not have been an exactly correct use, but it is
> close enough for government work, as we used to
> say. Note that the Soviet Union's actual
> technical name was "Union of Soviet Socialist
> Republics" - USSR. They were Socialists! And did
> make every attempt to institute the writings of
> Karl Marx and others of his ilk; and make them
> work; but ultimately failed!
>
> But the term "Communism" refers more to the way
> political power was organized in the USSR, at the
> commune level (local community in American
> vernacular); than it was a description of their
> economic system, which was socialist and statist.
> Thus the tight association of the two words
> (socialism and communism) has commonly led to
> interchangeable use by a great many.
>
> The fact was, that early in the twentieth century,
> American socialists at first got little traction
> with the public at large, until they stopped
> trying to foist socialism on us, all at once.
>
> But when they softened their message to just one
> small tidbit of socialist dogma, we bought it -
> line by line, precept by precept, a little here
> and a little there. They were satisfied to be
> thus progressing towards socialism; hence the
> name "Progressive". But even that name was
> usurped from others who had used it previously,
> and had a good public reputation.
>
> So, yes! Those that led the progressives refered
> to here, by and large, were socialists. And it
> appears no different now. But sadly, thanks to
> the utter failure of our education system, not so
> many understand that anymore. Yes, I was required
> to read the writings of Marx and others while in
> school; which fact helps me see through the
> disguises it so often wears. So to refer to one
> of Karl Marx's teachings; yes, there are "Useful
> Idiots" everywhere; who, while not actually
> wanting socialism, end up supporting those who do.
People who disagree with me aren't ignorant. People who have no understanding of language, history, politics and social strata are ignorant. All ideologies aside, facts should be undeniable.
First, The Soviet Union, their satellite states and other "communist" countries were anything but socialist. True socialists would never abdicate political and economic power to a fascist dictatorship, which is what the USSR was. A socialist is someone who advocates for the total control of the economic means of production by the workers (the people who perform the labor). THAT IS IT! Period end of discussion. That is all "socialism" has ever meant. Right-wing criminals have perverted the WORD socialism with fear-mongering, inaccurate, anti-left, anti-labor, anti-social propaganda the same way they did with "communists" and "liberals."
Your knee-jerk hatred of Karl Marx is pathetically typical of the ignorant mentality people like you display. Karl Marx advocated the destruction of Capitalism for good reason; to free people from social and economic slavery. Look around the world today, how's everything going under free-market capitalism? If you think the sorry social and economic state of our country is due to anything other than unfettered, out of control greed justified by so-called "free" market capitalism, then you and every one who agrees with you on this subject are the true haters of America and are guilty of treason on top of crippling ignorance.
Karl Marx advocated for people to have complete control over their potential creativity and labor. How can any decent human be AGAINST that?!
You still didn't explain how progressives are communists. You tried, but its hard to connect the dots when you can't draw a line between them. Since you still seem to have trouble I'll help you out. pro·gres·sive: adjective 1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters. There ya go. A progressive is someone who wants things to improve for our society and to PROGRESS towards a better life for all. The opposite, a conservative, wishes to remain stagnate and in the dustbin of history. If conservatives had their way, slavery, oppression of women, domination by the church and the proliferation of ignorance would still reign supreme.
The only reason that socialism in its Marxist form or communism never took root here in the early 20th Century is because the people behind those movements were murdered, jailed or had their reputations ruined through false slander. Who was behind this? Big business and their corrupt, dollar chasing friends in government. Claiming that socialism or communism in America died out because "they stopped trying to foist socialism on America" is a lie and displays your corrupt understanding of our social and political history.
Finally, if I am "ignorant due to my California education," the cause again is right-wing criminals who constantly vote to de-fund education in this state at all levels for the sole purpose of giving tax breaks to their rich business friends. No one could dispute this asa motive of many if not most conservatives because its happened for 40 years and keeps happening now.
I'll take a check or cash for my $100 BTW.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Progressives are communists? How?
>
> A better question is how do you keep calling
> others who disagree with you, "Ignorant"; while
> so grandly displaying your own ignorance! Seems
> almost as though you are a product of a California
> education - or at least one just as bad.
>
> Granted, the use of the word "Communist" here may
> not have been an exactly correct use, but it is
> close enough for government work, as we used to
> say. Note that the Soviet Union's actual
> technical name was "Union of Soviet Socialist
> Republics" - USSR. They were Socialists! And did
> make every attempt to institute the writings of
> Karl Marx and others of his ilk; and make them
> work; but ultimately failed!
>
> But the term "Communism" refers more to the way
> political power was organized in the USSR, at the
> commune level (local community in American
> vernacular); than it was a description of their
> economic system, which was socialist and statist.
> Thus the tight association of the two words
> (socialism and communism) has commonly led to
> interchangeable use by a great many.
>
> The fact was, that early in the twentieth century,
> American socialists at first got little traction
> with the public at large, until they stopped
> trying to foist socialism on us, all at once.
>
> But when they softened their message to just one
> small tidbit of socialist dogma, we bought it -
> line by line, precept by precept, a little here
> and a little there. They were satisfied to be
> thus progressing towards socialism; hence the
> name "Progressive". But even that name was
> usurped from others who had used it previously,
> and had a good public reputation.
>
> So, yes! Those that led the progressives refered
> to here, by and large, were socialists. And it
> appears no different now. But sadly, thanks to
> the utter failure of our education system, not so
> many understand that anymore. Yes, I was required
> to read the writings of Marx and others while in
> school; which fact helps me see through the
> disguises it so often wears. So to refer to one
> of Karl Marx's teachings; yes, there are "Useful
> Idiots" everywhere; who, while not actually
> wanting socialism, end up supporting those who do.
People who disagree with me aren't ignorant. People who have no understanding of language, history, politics and social strata are ignorant. All ideologies aside, facts should be undeniable.
First, The Soviet Union, their satellite states and other "communist" countries were anything but socialist. True socialists would never abdicate political and economic power to a fascist dictatorship, which is what the USSR was. A socialist is someone who advocates for the total control of the economic means of production by the workers (the people who perform the labor). THAT IS IT! Period end of discussion. That is all "socialism" has ever meant. Right-wing criminals have perverted the WORD socialism with fear-mongering, inaccurate, anti-left, anti-labor, anti-social propaganda the same way they did with "communists" and "liberals."
Your knee-jerk hatred of Karl Marx is pathetically typical of the ignorant mentality people like you display. Karl Marx advocated the destruction of Capitalism for good reason; to free people from social and economic slavery. Look around the world today, how's everything going under free-market capitalism? If you think the sorry social and economic state of our country is due to anything other than unfettered, out of control greed justified by so-called "free" market capitalism, then you and every one who agrees with you on this subject are the true haters of America and are guilty of treason on top of crippling ignorance.
Karl Marx advocated for people to have complete control over their potential creativity and labor. How can any decent human be AGAINST that?!
You still didn't explain how progressives are communists. You tried, but its hard to connect the dots when you can't draw a line between them. Since you still seem to have trouble I'll help you out. pro·gres·sive: adjective 1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters. There ya go. A progressive is someone who wants things to improve for our society and to PROGRESS towards a better life for all. The opposite, a conservative, wishes to remain stagnate and in the dustbin of history. If conservatives had their way, slavery, oppression of women, domination by the church and the proliferation of ignorance would still reign supreme.
The only reason that socialism in its Marxist form or communism never took root here in the early 20th Century is because the people behind those movements were murdered, jailed or had their reputations ruined through false slander. Who was behind this? Big business and their corrupt, dollar chasing friends in government. Claiming that socialism or communism in America died out because "they stopped trying to foist socialism on America" is a lie and displays your corrupt understanding of our social and political history.
Finally, if I am "ignorant due to my California education," the cause again is right-wing criminals who constantly vote to de-fund education in this state at all levels for the sole purpose of giving tax breaks to their rich business friends. No one could dispute this asa motive of many if not most conservatives because its happened for 40 years and keeps happening now.
I'll take a check or cash for my $100 BTW.
