Re: Tier 4
Author: SP5103
Date: 09-30-2014 - 09:35

The simple answer regarding whether the new commuter and passenger locos on order for delivery in 2015 will be Tier 4 is yes. I know Metrolink specifically wanted to be one of the first on the block with the new Tier 4 toys, as well as 125 mph capability (which they can't use anytime in the near future). These are all purchases primarily reliant on federal funding in the rush to be the "greenest". EMD wasn't even the lowest bidder, but was picked because it was thought they were the most likely to deliver on time. GO Transit is even pushing to repower some of their newer engines to be "greener".

Some important things to remember - passenger/commuter designs are now in a world all themselves and have little in common with freight designs or reality. The purchase of new designs is being driven by escalating emissions requirements, government funding, the whole "high speed rail" farce, politics and consultants who want additional contracts to oversee the unique specifications they create. No current builder is willing to design, test and produce a standard design because it will be immediately orphaned as no one would order it as "off the shelf" insisting on their own specified design that they want to be at least assembled locally. Another consideration is that due to the restricted operating area for commuter engines, the use of urea/DEF engines is not a huge stumbling block. Until urea/DEF facilities become common on Class 1 fuel racks they will avoid using it. Amtrak might be willing to consider it for long distance trains because I believe they primarily use contract trucks for trackside refueling so would add DEF to their contract.

Back to the original article - a couple of important points that struck me: I have heard that GE has reached Tier 4 with their GEVO, but their are issues with it contaminating the lube oil requiring more (costly) oil changes. But it doesn't sound like GE will begin producing T4 locos until several months into 2015. Is this due to production and tooling delays or are they still struggling to refine the final design? The longer frame will take some work but doesn't surprise me because there is a published quote that replacing the FDL-16 with the GEVO-12 allowed them some needed space for earlier emissions improvements.

I had assumed (incorrectly?) that EMD would continue to sell the existing T3 710s using emissions credits. According to the article, EMD was going to just sit back and not invest in T4 development until their was a demand for it? This, in my opinion, is asinine as T4 is here to stay and what advantage was their in not developing a prime mover for it? It would be interesting to know if EMD is now scrambling to redevelop the 710 (unlikely), 265-H or Cat 3600 series to meet Tier 4.

Note that all(?) the Tier 4 commuter/passenger designs are relying on high speed (1800-2100 rpm) engines compared to the typical EMD/GE medium speed designs (around 1000 rpm). And where is the next generation of LNG in all this?



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong pdxrailtransit 09-29-2014 - 19:57
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong Rich Hunn 09-29-2014 - 20:15
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong George Andrews 09-29-2014 - 20:34
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong BN Oly 09-29-2014 - 20:57
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong mook 09-29-2014 - 21:36
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong Tom McCann 09-29-2014 - 22:20
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong Ivy Mike 09-29-2014 - 22:41
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong FGEX 09-30-2014 - 09:10
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong Coal Slaw 09-30-2014 - 19:44
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong trust gov't Gordy 10-01-2014 - 14:32
  Re: "Job Creators" at Caterpillar Get it Wrong trust gov't Coal Slaw 10-01-2014 - 19:51
  Re: Tier 4 SP5103 09-30-2014 - 09:35
  Re: Tier 4 Rich Hunn 09-30-2014 - 10:34
  Re: Tier 4 BOB2 09-30-2014 - 11:18
  Re: Tier 4 Rich Hunn 09-30-2014 - 12:18
  Tier Minus One Pdxrailtransit 09-30-2014 - 12:58
  Re: Tier Minus One ... Two? mook 09-30-2014 - 16:04
  Re: No Crews? BOB2 09-30-2014 - 13:50
  Re: No Crews? SP5103 09-30-2014 - 16:38
  Re: No Crews? pdxrailtransit 09-30-2014 - 17:14
  Re: No Crews? Rich Hunn 09-30-2014 - 17:25
  Re: Ah "Megatrains", the last step before total meltdown? BOB2 09-30-2014 - 17:32
  Re: Ah "Megatrains", the last step before total meltdown? HUTCH 7.62 09-30-2014 - 19:21
  Re: Ah "Megatrains", the last step before total meltdown? Rich Hunn 09-30-2014 - 19:33
  Re: Ah "Megatrains", the last step before total meltdown? mook 09-30-2014 - 20:19


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