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Re: Responding Part II
Author: OPRRMS
Date: 02-20-2009 - 21:26
Holly Gibson Wrote:
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> I would say that the chances of this wreck being
> prevented would have been MUCH, MUCH better if a
> second set of eyes and ears had been on the head
> end observing what signal was displayed at CP
> Topanga.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. As I mentioned before, if you can provide some data to support your theory, I'd be more than happy to read it. The fact is, though, every day hundreds of passenger trains are successfully operated in this country with only a single person in the cab.
> Metrolink's management (or legal
> department) apparently is on the same page as I am
> on this issue.
So how come neither the federal or state government, nor the politicos, have made any effort to prohibit the use one-person-in-the-cab operation?
> How else would you explain their
> scrambling to place a second person in the cabs of
> their trains since the Chatsworth wreck?
Simple: It's a knee-jerk reaction.
>> I would submit that a better question is, would
>> the collision still have happened if the cab car
>> had been equipped with Cab Signals?
>
> I think that's a fair question. Personally, I
> think cab signals may have made all the
> difference. With cab signals, the engineer can
> glance up on the control console at any time and
> see what type of signal he's running on. That's a
> definite advantage.
OK. Then why hasn't the government required it? After all Cab Signals are a tried-and-true application that's available now, and is much more reliable than a GPS based system.
> Well, we seem to be re-hashing the same arguments
> here over and over.
Yup. But now that the thread's about to drop to the third page, fewer and fewer people will read it.
>snip<
> Likewise, I've never seen any data that shows
> collisions are more frequent in "lonesome cab"
> situations, but if you have something to that
> effect I'd be pleased to read it.
>
> I'm not sure if such documentation has been
> collected. I DO know this: If we asked
> representatives from the UTU or the BLE, they
> would have a certain type of data, and if we asked
> representatives from the railroads or the
> Association of American Railroads, they would have
> entirely different data.
Well, the FRA collected data and issued a report regarding Cab Car operation. Do you feel their conclusions were correct?
> So, who do you believe?
I tend to believe 10% of what I read and 50% of what I see.
> Are you a "union man" or are you a "management
> man"?
Fair question. Glad you asked it.
I was a local UTU-E officer from 1972 til 1999, when I finally got fed up, resigned my positions, and joined the BLE. I also "retired" from active union participation at that time. Three or four times between 1973 and the early Nineties I was offered low-level management positions with Southern Pacific, but declined. In late 1986 I was offered a low-level management position in Amtrak's Zone 12, but also declined. And last but not least, over the years I've been offered operating or low-level management positions with several shortlines and one reginal heavy rail authority, and also declined those.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say that the chances of this wreck being
> prevented would have been MUCH, MUCH better if a
> second set of eyes and ears had been on the head
> end observing what signal was displayed at CP
> Topanga.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. As I mentioned before, if you can provide some data to support your theory, I'd be more than happy to read it. The fact is, though, every day hundreds of passenger trains are successfully operated in this country with only a single person in the cab.
> Metrolink's management (or legal
> department) apparently is on the same page as I am
> on this issue.
So how come neither the federal or state government, nor the politicos, have made any effort to prohibit the use one-person-in-the-cab operation?
> How else would you explain their
> scrambling to place a second person in the cabs of
> their trains since the Chatsworth wreck?
Simple: It's a knee-jerk reaction.
>> I would submit that a better question is, would
>> the collision still have happened if the cab car
>> had been equipped with Cab Signals?
>
> I think that's a fair question. Personally, I
> think cab signals may have made all the
> difference. With cab signals, the engineer can
> glance up on the control console at any time and
> see what type of signal he's running on. That's a
> definite advantage.
OK. Then why hasn't the government required it? After all Cab Signals are a tried-and-true application that's available now, and is much more reliable than a GPS based system.
> Well, we seem to be re-hashing the same arguments
> here over and over.
Yup. But now that the thread's about to drop to the third page, fewer and fewer people will read it.
>snip<
> Likewise, I've never seen any data that shows
> collisions are more frequent in "lonesome cab"
> situations, but if you have something to that
> effect I'd be pleased to read it.
>
> I'm not sure if such documentation has been
> collected. I DO know this: If we asked
> representatives from the UTU or the BLE, they
> would have a certain type of data, and if we asked
> representatives from the railroads or the
> Association of American Railroads, they would have
> entirely different data.
Well, the FRA collected data and issued a report regarding Cab Car operation. Do you feel their conclusions were correct?
> So, who do you believe?
I tend to believe 10% of what I read and 50% of what I see.
> Are you a "union man" or are you a "management
> man"?
Fair question. Glad you asked it.
I was a local UTU-E officer from 1972 til 1999, when I finally got fed up, resigned my positions, and joined the BLE. I also "retired" from active union participation at that time. Three or four times between 1973 and the early Nineties I was offered low-level management positions with Southern Pacific, but declined. In late 1986 I was offered a low-level management position in Amtrak's Zone 12, but also declined. And last but not least, over the years I've been offered operating or low-level management positions with several shortlines and one reginal heavy rail authority, and also declined those.
