Joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Let me get this straight....
>
> -The man was not arrested
> -The man was touched
> -He was uncooperative with the police


Chris was complelely cooperative with the officers. He just would not allow himself to be bullied.

>
> And now he has the ACLU trying to squeeze money
> out of the transit agency for his "suffering"?
> Give me a break. This is nothing more than a
> college student trying to be an activist. Yes, I
> know who Chris is. I thought he had more sense
> than this.

This isn't about "suffering" and no mention is made of it. And college students, and any other American citizen, have the right to be activists if they want to be one. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were "activists". And Chris has a great deal of sense.


> He was told that transit policy
> states that if you want to photograph the trains,
> you have to get permission first. Chris did not
> have permission to take pictures. What is the
> issue here???

This is copied directly from the MTA website on photography:

No permit required: A permit is not required for non-commercial, personal-use filming or photography by the general public that does not interfere with transit operations or safety.

What part of "no permit is required" do you not understand, Joe?


> If he would have simply provided his ID, as well
> as explained that he is a rail and transit fan,
> and that he was taking pictures for his hobby,
> then this whole encounter would have been over
> with in 3 or 4 minutes---if that. This is exactly
> what I'm talking about when I see railfans acting
> irresponsibly. As the sergeant stated so
> correctly, "You're making a mountain out of a mole
> hill".

In America, we are not required by law to "show our papers". All we are required to do is verbally identify ourselves by name. Chris did that. This is not Nazi Germany, Joe, it is America.


> I am HAPPY that transit officials are keeping an
> eye on photographers. We do not know where the
> terrorists will hit next. However, we do have some
> ideas as to what their targets will be. This, of
> course, includes transit.

We're all happy our law enforcement officials are keeping an eye on things Joe. That is what they are paid to do, by US. We employ them. However, we also expect them to know the laws. Unfortunately for these good officers, they were not quite up to snuff on the exacts of the law. That happens sometimes. But my guess is that they will now get a refresher course, which will be good for them and for all of us. They are good people doing a tough job in a tough time. But it's important that they understand our rights and not interfere with our freedom to engage in lawful activities.


> What a stupid thing for
> Chris to do. I thought he was more mature than
> that. He is surrounded by liberalism every day by
> being a college student, and I'm sure that
> environment contributed to this. He'll probably do
> a school project on this incident and get an A
> from the pony-tailed, 60's throwback, hippie
> teacher who drives a Prius with Obama and
> "CoExist" bumper stickers.

My my...aren't we judgemental. Ya know, Joe, you forgot to slam Jesus freaks and environmentalists. If you're going to rant and be bigoted and ignorant, try to be all inclusive...it's much more entertaining.


>
> SOMEBODY has to speak up and say what many people
> are privately thinking, but are afraid to come out
> and say due to it being "politically incorrect".

Really? There are more out there like you? ...and here I thought this was a more enlightened age we now live in.


> Why didn't Chris show his ID, explain the railfan
> business, and then get on with his day?? WHY??
> Answer: Because he *WANTED* to make a mountain out
> of molehill.


And good for him...we all need to stand up for our rights. After all, we just got through a holiday weekend remembering all those who paid the ultimate price to earn those rights for us.


It's blatantly obvious by how he
> handled this whole thing. I wonder how many
> minutes into this encounter did Chris start to see
> dollar signs and the ACLU? I wonder if he saw
> dollar signs and the ACLU *before* this incident?
> It sure seems like it to me.
>
> Why didn't he heed what the sergeant was telling
> him, which is that the transit agency requires
> prior approval before photos are taken?


Again, Joe, what part of "no permit is required" do you not understand?


> The only
> real mistake I can see here on the officer's part
> is that they did not kick him off the property and
> tell him not to return or he would be arrested for
> trespassing. If someone does not want to play by
> the rules, and they are given ample opportunity to
> do so, then they need to be removed from the
> premises. It's just like any other establishment:
> "No shoes. No shirt. No service."

Chris broke no laws, and this is not a police state like some banana republic down in South America, so thankfully, they could not arrest him for the things you mentioned.


>
> This disgusts me. He should be ashamed of himself.


I beg to differ, Joe, and you should be ashamed for flogging Chris when he was doing nothing more than enjoying his day in a free country where we understand that our government works for us and are NOT our taskmasters.

> I hope, in the end, that he has to pay for the
> legal bills that the transit agency is going to
> incur as a result of this nonsense.


Nothing nonsense about this, Joe. Chris is a patriot and is helping our law enforcement and judicial systems understand who is in charge of whom, and how free people want the law interpreted. Good for Chris and good for the ACLU on this particular case, and good for all who have the gumption to take up these defining moments. Our country is the stronger for it.

By the way, Joe, please read the page at this link; it'll help you understand why all this is happening. Additionally, you might want to google up the Steve Barry detention case, which also is undergoing review. He's the editor of Railfan & Railroad magazine and was also given the runaround by transit authorities.

[www.krages.com]