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Re: Tourist Railroad Safety
Author: OPRRMS
Date: 06-03-2012 - 09:27
Erik H. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tie Plate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 20+ replies and I'm still confused as to how
> Erik
> > H. is qualified to fully assess the two
> situations
> > when he can't answer basic questions about the
> > operations.
>
> OK. It is a standard gauge railroad using full
> sized railroad equipment. It is not the
> Disneyland Railroad, or the Washington Park & Zoo
> Railroad, or Knotts Berry Farm. It's a real
> train, using real full sized locomotives.
>
> I do not know if the railroad is accountable to
> the FRA. How am I supposed to know? Is there
> some sign somewhere that says "This railroad is
> accountable to the FRA" or "This railroad is
> exempt from FRA regulations?" Please, enlighten
> me rather than bashing me.
>
> What I know is that it's a railroad. There's a
> train on it. There's a railroad crossing.
> There's a road across it. I've already mentioned
> that they are public crossings.
>
> I don't know if these groups categorize themselves
> as "museums" - neither one of them have a facility
> that the public would commonly refer to as a
> "museum". Neither one has a building that is open
> to the public that displays artifacts like a
> "museum".
>
> I would presume that these are "railfan" groups,
> but what is a "railfan" group? Is there some
> category or some legal basis that says they are a
> "railfan" group versus something else? I guess
> they might be a historical operation...they sure
> don't run SD70Ms or Dash 9-44CWs.
>
> How am I supposed to know? I know what a railroad
> is. I know what a grade crossing is. I guess as
> a licensed motorist I'm supposed to be able to
> identify a crossing and then judge my actions
> based not based upon the MUTCD regulated signage
> for a railroad crossing - but by who the hell
> manages the equipment? What if I never see the
> equipment - and then one day there's a train there
> - am I supposed to change my driving attitude
> based upon what kind of train it is? Is there
> really a different? DOES IT MATTER TO THE GENERAL
> PUBLIC?
>
> If you want to get snotty with me because I don't
> know the answer, please enlighten me so I can
> better answer your question. If you're just going
> to rant because there's been 20 posts and I don't
> know the answer because I just don't know how this
> railroad is regulated, spare me. I'm sorry I just
> don't know the answer and you would rather get
> into a pissing match or just show that you have a
> huge ego than actually being friendly and
> helpful...people like you are part of the reason
> I've slowly stepped back from this hobby because
> apparently it's more fun to criticize people for
> asking questions than answering the questions - or
> better yet, not say anything if you don't have
> anything to contribute.
Wow. That's quite an answer!
In your initial post that started this thread, you told us about what you observed on a couple of what you've called "tourist railroads" and ended the post with: "Anyone care to chime in on this?" Well, a lot of people have done exactly that and responded with reasonable, appropriate responses. I myself have asked whether the railroads you're referring to are actual railroads or are part of museums or part of railfan organizations. Can't seem to extract an answer from your about that, so I'll try a differnt approach in case you're confused by the definition. Here in California, examples of actual railroads that also operate tourist trains would be the Sierra Railroad, the Sierra Western (ex-Sacramento Northern Woodland Branch) and the California Western - all three of which are operated by the same company. Examples of museums/railfan organizations would be the Western Railway Museum, the Niles Canyon Railway, the Orange Empire Railway Museum, and whatever the name of the one at Campo is. So, which type of operation most closely resembles the railroads you're referring to?
On the other hand, simply naming the two railroads would clear it up, too. Why not do that? Or maybe a better idea would be that rather than post your concerns on a website such as this one, why not address your concerns directly to the management of those railroads? Then if you feel they have not adequately address the issues, take your concerns to the FRA. After all, your main concern is for safety, right?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tie Plate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 20+ replies and I'm still confused as to how
> Erik
> > H. is qualified to fully assess the two
> situations
> > when he can't answer basic questions about the
> > operations.
>
> OK. It is a standard gauge railroad using full
> sized railroad equipment. It is not the
> Disneyland Railroad, or the Washington Park & Zoo
> Railroad, or Knotts Berry Farm. It's a real
> train, using real full sized locomotives.
>
> I do not know if the railroad is accountable to
> the FRA. How am I supposed to know? Is there
> some sign somewhere that says "This railroad is
> accountable to the FRA" or "This railroad is
> exempt from FRA regulations?" Please, enlighten
> me rather than bashing me.
>
> What I know is that it's a railroad. There's a
> train on it. There's a railroad crossing.
> There's a road across it. I've already mentioned
> that they are public crossings.
>
> I don't know if these groups categorize themselves
> as "museums" - neither one of them have a facility
> that the public would commonly refer to as a
> "museum". Neither one has a building that is open
> to the public that displays artifacts like a
> "museum".
>
> I would presume that these are "railfan" groups,
> but what is a "railfan" group? Is there some
> category or some legal basis that says they are a
> "railfan" group versus something else? I guess
> they might be a historical operation...they sure
> don't run SD70Ms or Dash 9-44CWs.
>
> How am I supposed to know? I know what a railroad
> is. I know what a grade crossing is. I guess as
> a licensed motorist I'm supposed to be able to
> identify a crossing and then judge my actions
> based not based upon the MUTCD regulated signage
> for a railroad crossing - but by who the hell
> manages the equipment? What if I never see the
> equipment - and then one day there's a train there
> - am I supposed to change my driving attitude
> based upon what kind of train it is? Is there
> really a different? DOES IT MATTER TO THE GENERAL
> PUBLIC?
>
> If you want to get snotty with me because I don't
> know the answer, please enlighten me so I can
> better answer your question. If you're just going
> to rant because there's been 20 posts and I don't
> know the answer because I just don't know how this
> railroad is regulated, spare me. I'm sorry I just
> don't know the answer and you would rather get
> into a pissing match or just show that you have a
> huge ego than actually being friendly and
> helpful...people like you are part of the reason
> I've slowly stepped back from this hobby because
> apparently it's more fun to criticize people for
> asking questions than answering the questions - or
> better yet, not say anything if you don't have
> anything to contribute.
Wow. That's quite an answer!
In your initial post that started this thread, you told us about what you observed on a couple of what you've called "tourist railroads" and ended the post with: "Anyone care to chime in on this?" Well, a lot of people have done exactly that and responded with reasonable, appropriate responses. I myself have asked whether the railroads you're referring to are actual railroads or are part of museums or part of railfan organizations. Can't seem to extract an answer from your about that, so I'll try a differnt approach in case you're confused by the definition. Here in California, examples of actual railroads that also operate tourist trains would be the Sierra Railroad, the Sierra Western (ex-Sacramento Northern Woodland Branch) and the California Western - all three of which are operated by the same company. Examples of museums/railfan organizations would be the Western Railway Museum, the Niles Canyon Railway, the Orange Empire Railway Museum, and whatever the name of the one at Campo is. So, which type of operation most closely resembles the railroads you're referring to?
On the other hand, simply naming the two railroads would clear it up, too. Why not do that? Or maybe a better idea would be that rather than post your concerns on a website such as this one, why not address your concerns directly to the management of those railroads? Then if you feel they have not adequately address the issues, take your concerns to the FRA. After all, your main concern is for safety, right?
