Are we talking about the same stretch of land. Have you seen the growth rates of these cities south of Portland? That I-5 stretch south of Portland is becoming more and more of a monster to penetrate and it is only going to get worse. Once the Vancouver to Portland section gets it's new train sets, gradual upgrades south of Portland will occur. ODOT doesn't need to come up with all the funds at once. And besides, look at who is the head of oversight for transportation in the US Congress. The Starlight is not going anywhere, but will only be enhanced.

WES is a non-starter, ie, is there a more anemic commuter line in the country?

Population Eugene-Springfield 240,000 and booming.
Salem 180,000 and booming.
Albany 60,000 and booming.

Demand usually goes up with population growth. Just need the right investments.




Not going to happen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adding Stations decreases velocity, so while you
> **COULD** add them along the way, chance of that
> happening is extremely remote.
>
> There is no $$$ for any of the scenarios below,
> and even if built, there would not be demand.
> Virtually all transit foamers think that
> magically, if you build it, they will come.
> Oregon does not have traffic problems and gridlock
> that created demand for any of this investment,
> nor the density of people or jobs at any one
> place. Vancouver, WA <--> PDX commuters excluded
> from the discussion.
>
> Extension of WES style service to Salem would seem
> like a realistic goal, but WES can't get enough
> riders to meet expected ridership numbers, to
> possibly increase demand to more hours-per-day or
> even 7 days a week. Cherriots Bus
> Service(Salem)runs between Salem and
> Wilsonville/Tualatin/Barbur Transit Stations, so
> parallel transit options already exist.
>
> Those that often dream up these things will never
> be users of it or have to pay for it so it's just
> a consultants Pipe Dream. Point-to-point transit
> will dominate for the foreseeable future.
> Uber/lyft and eventually autonomous vehicles will
> increase asset utilization and have a paradigm
> shift is transit options, road safety etc.
> E-Scooters are an interesting study in just how
> point-to-point many people want their transit.
> E-scooters do integrate well with bus/rail transit
> and increase the reach of that transit option
>
> les Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All sorts of options to speed it up. My guess
> > would be the HSR option seeing how Microsoft
> and
> > others are pitching in big bucks for a Cascadia
> > HSR line.
> --------------------------------------------------
> --
> > • The Blue corridor concept would generally
> follow
> > the existing Amtrak Cascades route within or
> near
> > the UPRR right-of-way between
> Eugene/Springfield
> > and Portland. Passenger trains would share
> track
> > with freight trains and have a maximum speed of
> 79
> > miles per hour (mph). Existing and potential
> new
> > station locations included Springfield, Eugene,
> > Harrisburg, Tangent, Albany, Salem, Brooks,
> > Woodburn,Canby, Oregon City and Portland,
> Oregon,
> > and Vancouver, Washington.
>
> Price Tag for property from UP makes this a
> never-will-happen option.
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> > • The Red corridor concept would parallel
> > Interstate 5 (I-5), either within or near the
> > current highway right-of-way, starting at a new
> > station in Springfield and heading north to
> > Vancouver, Washington. The alignment would
> consist
> > of largely new track devoted to intercity
> > passenger rail service and have a maximum
> design
> > speed of 110 mph. Potential new and existing
> > station locations included Springfield,
> > Eugene, Albany, Salem, Keizer, Woodburn,
> > Wilsonville, Tualatin and Portland, Oregon, and
> > Vancouver, Washington.
>
> Cost to rebuild & replace every overpass and exit
> too high. Also, South Salem Hills and Terwilliger
> curves cannot support ROW Grade that would be
> acceptable.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> > • The Purple corridor concept would generally
> > follow the existing freight rail line
> historically
> > known as the Oregon Electric Railway (OER) and
> > would involve the intermingling of passenger
> and
> > freight rail with
> > limited sections that had passenger-only
> traffic,
> > and a maximum design speed of 110 mph. Existing
> > and potential new station locations included
> > Springfield, Eugene, Harrisburg, Albany, Salem,
> > Keizer, Donald, Wilsonville and Tualatin.
>
> This might be the most realistic "path forward" as
> the State owns the ROW. However, getting the
> speeds up and working with the PNWR Freight would
> have to be more like an extension of WES Service,
> not HSR.
>
> Albany and Salem would need new stations, and
> options of Keizer(Keizer Station w/ In-N-Out
> Burger, Volcanos Stadium) Woodburn(Outlet Shopping
> Center) and existing Wilsonville/Tualatin/Tigard
> WES Station. A connection from the OE to the
> Tillamook/West Side Line at Cook to get back into
> Portland and Union Station would be required.
> Still have the EAST Portland bottleneck and
> NIMBY's along the way. If this did not require
> thru service than it could just end at the
> connection/extension to WES.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > • The Yellow corridor concept would originate
> in
> > Springfield, follow the Purple corridor to
> > Junction City and proceed to Monroe on a new
> rail
> > alignment. Near Monroe, the alignment would
> > connect with a currently abandoned rail grade
> and
> > then proceed north through Corvallis,
> McMinnville
> > and Lake Oswego before connecting to the Purple
> > corridor at Tualatin. The Yellow corridor would
> > also include options to connect to the Purple
> or
> > Blue corridors in Albany or east of
> Independence.
> > The Yellow concept would involve the
> intermingling
> > of passenger and freight rail, and a maximum
> > design speed of 79 mph. Existing and potential
> new
> > station locations included Springfield, Eugene,
> > Corvallis, Independence, McMinnville, Newberg
> and
> > Tualatin.
>
> Other than connection to Corvallis(OSU) and Wine
> Country how is this better than the OE alignment?
> There are not enough people along the way Much
> like air travel with "fly over country" Same
> problem between Eugene and Portland. Bus service
> such as BOLT BUS are a good model.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> > • The Cascadia High-Speed Rail (HSR) corridor
> > concept would consist of a fully electric
> > high-speed rail alignment from Eugene to
> > Vancouver, Washington, that would be separate
> from
> > existing rail right-ofway and have a maximum
> > design speed of 180 mph. Stakeholders
> introduced
> > this concept during the scoping process, and it
> > was defined to include electric power
> locomotives.
> > This rail alignment would be similar to the Red
> > corridor concept, following the I-5 median
> > at-grade where possible from Eugene to
> Tualatin.
> > North of Tualatin, it would travel along a new
> > dedicated right-of-way on a combination of
> tunnel
> > and elevated track along the Willamette River
> to
> > the Rose Quarter in Portland, and then north
> > across the Columbia River on a new bridge.
>
> Good thing both Oregon and Washington have
> legalized marijuana, cause that plan is as
> realistic and traveling on personal poop and
> emissions free flying unicorns.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> > Existing and potential station locations
> > associated with the EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
> > E S - 6 Oregon Passenger Rail Project Tier 1
> Draft
> > Environmental Impact Statement
> > OCTOBER 2018
> > Cascadia HSR corridor concept included Eugene,
> > Albany, Salem, Keizer, Woodburn, Wilsonville,
> > Tualatin and Portland, Oregon, and Vancouver,
> > Washington.
> >
> >
> [www.oregonpassengerrail.org]
>
> > ocuments/deis-publicdraft-cip-online.pdf
> >
> > Erik H. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > les Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Of course nobody will ride a line that goes
> > > slower than a speeding tortoise-motive.
> > > > Once they move the speeds to comparable
> auto
> > > speeds or better
> > >
> > > Except there is virtually no way to fix the
> > > bottleneck that is Portland to Woodburn,
> unless
> > > you build atop the river, relocate the line
> > > somewhere else, or take out Highway 99E.
> > >
> > > Even if you use the Oregon Electric you have
> > the
> > > issue of getting trains off the OE and into
> > Union
> > > Station using the UP through East Portland,
> or
> > you
> > > have the issue of one station for north of
> > > Portland and one for south, which adds to
> > travel
> > > time and decreases ridership. For a service
> > that
> > > already struggles with ridership, that would
> > not
> > > help matters.