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Re: ACLU tangles with Philadelphia MTA over rail photography
Author: Brian
Date: 06-02-2011 - 20:37
The cops can demand ID if they can articulate that they have probable cause that the person committed a crime or violation that the officers need to make an arrest on or summons. In the case of the reporter, it’s sketchy at best, but at least the Officer is in the process of investigating a report from the Congressman’s entire office staff that a person basically committed the crime of trespassing.
Chris committed no crime, nor any violation of any kind whatsoever. Probable cause does not have a high bar, like "innocent until proven guilty", so the cops only needed a reasonable suspicion that Chris committed a crime or violation, but they didn't have even that. The cops had no right to stop him, detain him, or demand any ID. They can chat him up or ask anything they want and many cases people will comply, but they had no legal right and they were either lying about the law or were ignorant of it. Either case is pretty egregious.
Also, what if Chris didn't have any ID on him? Are we required to carry ID when out in public if we aren't driving a car or engaging in another unlicensed activity? No we aren't. (Does the term “paper’s please” mean anything to you?). America is not a 3rd world communist nation...yet..., where citizens have to ID themselves to the government everywhere they go with no probable cause. So, was the cop just going to haul Chris in to jail for failure to carry ID? Even that wasn’t a violation and so Chris had no legal obligation to comply with the cop’s demands or threats.
And let’s face it, the only reason the cops gave Chris such a hard time, was because a citizen had the audacity to not comply with his demands. I highly doubt the cop truly thought Chris was a threat. But their opinion of the people that they work for is so low that when a citizen dares to comply with their every demand, they got incensed and decided to harass him as much as they possibly could, through intimidation and numbers. Meanwhile as they were wasting tax payer dollars taking out a personal vendetta against Chris, obvious and blatant safety violations were taking place within view of Chris's camera. And they didn't care.
Someone needs some serious time off at the very least. If not fired.
Brian
Chris committed no crime, nor any violation of any kind whatsoever. Probable cause does not have a high bar, like "innocent until proven guilty", so the cops only needed a reasonable suspicion that Chris committed a crime or violation, but they didn't have even that. The cops had no right to stop him, detain him, or demand any ID. They can chat him up or ask anything they want and many cases people will comply, but they had no legal right and they were either lying about the law or were ignorant of it. Either case is pretty egregious.
Also, what if Chris didn't have any ID on him? Are we required to carry ID when out in public if we aren't driving a car or engaging in another unlicensed activity? No we aren't. (Does the term “paper’s please” mean anything to you?). America is not a 3rd world communist nation...yet..., where citizens have to ID themselves to the government everywhere they go with no probable cause. So, was the cop just going to haul Chris in to jail for failure to carry ID? Even that wasn’t a violation and so Chris had no legal obligation to comply with the cop’s demands or threats.
And let’s face it, the only reason the cops gave Chris such a hard time, was because a citizen had the audacity to not comply with his demands. I highly doubt the cop truly thought Chris was a threat. But their opinion of the people that they work for is so low that when a citizen dares to comply with their every demand, they got incensed and decided to harass him as much as they possibly could, through intimidation and numbers. Meanwhile as they were wasting tax payer dollars taking out a personal vendetta against Chris, obvious and blatant safety violations were taking place within view of Chris's camera. And they didn't care.
Someone needs some serious time off at the very least. If not fired.
Brian
