Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits.
Author: crmeatball
Date: 09-25-2009 - 09:25

This concept is not a new one and is something several transit agencies have attempted. Conceptually, a radio based detection system could be very accurate and provide reliable information in most applications. However, such a system must be more than reliable, it must be failsafe. Perhaps OPB can provide greater detail here as to why current radio based detection is not failsafe.

Much of this technology was originally developed for military applications. These systems are designed to operate reliably even in the presence of interference, but are not designed to be failsafe. Why? Several reasons come to mind. First, the military does not require their datalinks to be 100% available. They expect outages due to environmental effects, interference or other conditions. The general rule of thumb is a 95% availability. Additionally, while the military relies upon such datalinks, they allow for "acceptable losses", meaning they can accept a certain degree of failure from time to time. Finally, the cost involved in developing a failsafe, RF based system is cost prohibitive. This paradigm does not apply in the railroad world, where acceptable losses means zero losses. It would require a link availability of 100%, something which is not really practical - especially in where the system is being implemented in a subway (I cannot even begin to imagine the multipath and interference issues from that one). Additionally, the RF spectrum is becoming very crowded, adding another level of complexity. Nor is this a trivial matter, as businesses pay billions of dollars for spectrum allocation.

This is not to say it is not a good idea or should not be pursued, we just need to remember that the technology might appear compatible on the surface, it does not meet all the requirements for a failsafe implementation and will require a significant investment to develop a radio based detection system which is failsafe.



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station synonymouse 09-23-2009 - 10:01
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station J Mann 09-23-2009 - 14:53
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station The Montezuma Yardmaster 09-23-2009 - 17:10
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station Ernest H. Robl 09-23-2009 - 18:02
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station Freericks 09-23-2009 - 19:14
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station BigDogsTX 09-23-2009 - 20:18
  Re: CHSRA Conference Call on Tuesday BOB2 09-24-2009 - 07:27
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station The Montezuma Yardmaster 09-24-2009 - 08:02
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station synonymouse 09-24-2009 - 09:57
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station OldPoleBurner 09-24-2009 - 10:22
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station George Andrews 09-24-2009 - 14:56
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station synonymouse 09-24-2009 - 20:02
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station The Montezuma Yardmaster 09-24-2009 - 17:18
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station Dr Zarkoff 09-24-2009 - 22:01
  Re: Kopp and SF continue to fight over downtown hsr station OldPoleBurner 09-24-2009 - 23:58
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits. BOB2 09-25-2009 - 08:21
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits. crmeatball 09-25-2009 - 09:25
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits. OldPoleBurner 09-25-2009 - 12:43
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits. Dr Zarkoff 09-25-2009 - 20:43
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Less dependence on track circuits. BOB2MM 09-25-2009 - 21:36
  Thanks Ernest H. Robl 09-26-2009 - 08:30
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Why only politicians??? George Andrews 09-26-2009 - 09:33
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC-Why only politicians??? Dr Zarkoff 09-26-2009 - 12:48
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC > imported welded rail Graham Buxton 09-26-2009 - 15:51
  Re: Robust Communications Options for PTC > imported welded rail Dr Zarkoff 09-26-2009 - 21:21


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