Re: BART: broad gauge vs. standard gauge
Author: OldPoleBurner
Date: 08-26-2008 - 23:29

>> I was mulling over how to defend light rail against heavy rail when.....

Why should you have to defend light rail, or want to?

I personally don't care what kind of rail is built - so long as it actually WILL attract a significant number off the freeways - of their own free will. It must also have low operating costs and be sufficient to meet long term capacity requirements. It all qualifies as rail anyway! We should be making reasoned decisions based upon impartial facts, free of personal favorites.

Considering that per mile costs of light rail and DMU lines in California have soared to the point that they approach BART's cost, it becomes a question of just how much bang do you get for the buck - light rail compared to BART or CalTrain. How many drivers will give up their cushy autos for a 30 - 40 mile ride in a narrow cramped low speed (55mph tops) streetcar vs a nice wide BART car or CalTrain car with lots of soft seats at 70-79mph. BART is primarily a suburban electric interurban. Whereas light rail is more suited for short haul (a few minutes ride). And note that CalTrain is migrating in that same direction! We should use each where each is most suited.

BART cars do have quite a bit of life left in them, but they are aging. I understand from friends at BART that it is studying various car configuration options for upcoming orders, They are needed mostly to cover line expansions and increased ridership.

I'm afraid the stupid gauge decision is, for all practical purposes, irreversible. It would have to be shut down for a very long time to relay ALL the track and replace all the trucks. We got a taste of a BART shutdown only a few years back - it wasn't pretty - economic strangulation of the BAY Area began to set in after only one week! But gauge differences don't really add that much cost difference, especially when compared to other BART oddities. BART cars are actually structurally very much like the original cars in Washington and Atlanta, and cost similarly, despite the gauge difference.

There actually is a lot BART could do to get the tracks out there much quicker and for a lot less cost: such as build single track initially (single track 15 minute service is already being done in places such as San Diego and Sacramento); build at grade (use overpasses or grade crossings every few blocks); build simpler stations; lower ballast; smaller rail; no sound walls; no concrete track pads; no expanded freeway medians, no frills; etc. Perhaps it would be useful to run BART size cars (maybe even multiple articulated 50ft by 10ft 6in carbodies), on lighter constructed track, with capability for third rail, catenary, or even diesel haul where needed - the best of all worlds!

Whether you are building light or heavy, or diesel hauled doesn't really matter though; we will still need to duck tape NYMBY mouths shut and run most of the politicians out of town. And the biggeee? Fix California's ludicrous contract law as it pertains to public works - it's bbbrrrooooowwwwwkkk. It always gives away the store to greedy corporations that usually fail to perform anyway. Both public rail and public highway projects in California cost several times what they do in other states for this very reason.

Just think how much track (and service) of any sort we could have had by now!

OPB



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  street running and BART bloat synonymouse 08-26-2008 - 12:46
  Re: street running and BART bloat BOB2 08-26-2008 - 12:59
  Re: street running and BART bloat J 08-26-2008 - 13:25
  Re: street running and BART bloat David Jansson 08-26-2008 - 13:43
  Re: street running and BART bloat david vartanoff 08-26-2008 - 17:25
  Re: street running and BART bloat BOB2 08-26-2008 - 17:25
  Re: street running and BART bloat mook 08-26-2008 - 17:54
  Re: street running and BART bloat synonymouse 08-26-2008 - 20:30
  Re: street running and BART bloat Scott Schiechl 08-26-2008 - 21:43
  BART: broad gauge vs. standard gauge D.E.T. 08-26-2008 - 22:54
  Re: BART: broad gauge vs. standard gauge OldPoleBurner 08-26-2008 - 23:29
  eBART and NIMBYs D.E.T. 08-26-2008 - 23:49
  BART's engineers' choice of gauge s 08-28-2008 - 12:12
  Re: BART: broad gauge vs. standard gauge synonymouse 08-27-2008 - 00:34
  Re: BART: broad gauge vs. standard gauge david vartanoff 08-27-2008 - 08:40
  Re: street running and BART bloat david vartanoff 08-27-2008 - 09:00
  Re: street running and BART bloat Bigdogstx 08-26-2008 - 23:44
  Re: street running and BART bloat BOB2 08-27-2008 - 09:34
  Re: street running and BART bloat synonymouse 08-27-2008 - 09:55
  Re: street running and BART bloat Scott Schiechl 08-27-2008 - 11:20
  Re: street running and BART bloat david vartanoff 08-27-2008 - 12:14
  Re: street running and BART bloat The Montezuma Yardmaster 08-27-2008 - 12:35
  Re: street running and BART bloat BigDogsTX 08-27-2008 - 12:50
  Grade separation Mike Stimpson 08-27-2008 - 12:47
  Re: Grade separation synonymouse 08-27-2008 - 19:36
  Re: Grade separation Scott Schiechl 08-27-2008 - 20:32
  Re: Ax Grinding Abe Lincoln 08-27-2008 - 21:36
  Re: Ax Grinding synonymouse 08-28-2008 - 00:14
  Re: BART Track Gauge fkrock 08-28-2008 - 09:09
  Re: BART Track Gauge synonymouse 08-28-2008 - 09:30
  BART's engineers' choice of track gauge s 08-28-2008 - 13:11
  Re: BART riding questions... George Andrews 08-28-2008 - 19:42
  Re: BART riding questions... Scott Schiechl 08-28-2008 - 20:31
  Re: BART restrooms AL Stangenberger 08-28-2008 - 23:43
  Re: BART restrooms The Montezuma Yardmaster 08-29-2008 - 08:49
  Re: BART restrooms Al Stangenberger 08-29-2008 - 09:29
  Re: BART riding questions... GRRR 08-29-2008 - 18:55


Go to: Message ListSearch
Subject: 
Your Name: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **        **     **  **    **  **     **        ** 
 **         **   **   **   **   **     **        ** 
 **          ** **    **  **    **     **        ** 
 **           ***     *****     **     **        ** 
 **          ** **    **  **     **   **   **    ** 
 **         **   **   **   **     ** **    **    ** 
 ********  **     **  **    **     ***      ******  
This message board is maintained by:Altamont Press
You can send us an email at altamontpress1@gmail.com