Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey
Author: mook
Date: 08-10-2013 - 17:18

I wonder if we might be able to better define the situation...

Current Status:

The Monterey Branch is no longer (since the switch to the SP/now UP Coast Line was removed in Castroville) part of the general railroad system. The fact that several road crossings have been pulled up and/or paved over is icing on the cake. It has not been abandoned, however, and much of the track remains, north of Sand City at least. The part from Sand City through Pacific Grove has mostly been converted to bike/ped trail and golf course.

Track is in dreadful shape, and the Salinas River Bridge simply can't be used for anything - must be completely replaced. There are no industrial operations along the line requiring rail service any more, and no reasonable prospect of them.

What Could Happen?

There's nothing physically impossible about restoring rail service of some kind between Sand City and Castroville. Most of the r/w is there, and track replacement isn't horribly expensive (That Bridge could be an issue, but if rebuild is otherwise justified it's only money that would probably be mostly Federal). Getting rail further into Monterey or P.G. would probably be financially and politically impossible in at least the short term (i.e. the rest of my useful lifetime).

Financially, it's unlikely (the transit district is probably right on this) that there would be enough local (Sand City-Castroville) traffic to justify returning the line to operation as a traditional transit (light rail) project. Maybe if they were filling buses and needed more - enough to be noticeable in the freeway traffic - there might be a transit-related justification. But you have to be able to show enough traffic to generate the fares to make the local contribution (usually around 25%, though of course more is better) in order to get the Fed/State $$ needed to build and run it. The transit people (who in most places will bend the facts massively to get a rail line) don't seem to think that would happen in a near timeframe. For general cost information, you could probably look at the Escondido line (diesel MUs) as a more practical first phase example than full-on electric light rail - even without the wires, it wasn't cheap, and it had and still has regular railroad freight at night to help cover the maintenance cost which Monterey doesn't and has little potential to generate. Also, look at the population and layout of the area around the Escondido (Sprinter) line and compare to Monterey-Castroville. You could probably fit the population of all of the Marina-Seaside strip into maybe 10 miles of the towns along the Escondido line - which also connects to a well-used commute and Amtrak line (and what's essentially a Bus Rapid Transit line along I-15) with mulitple services per day.

As a regular rail line (reconnected to UP in Castroville) there's little to recommend the Branch for restoration at the moment. Highly unlikely that a Del Monte operation and perhaps a few tourist trains would be enough to justify the cost to rebuild and operate - though if Santa Cruz can make theirs work (with similar or worse bridge issues and some real geography to deal with) they might provide some pointers. No conventional freight potential, period. It's too soon to know how well (or if) SC will work and whether any knowledge gained there can be transferred to Monterey. Also, remember, the Santa Cruz line was an operating railroad of sorts until very recently, and still in in spots - Monterey has been rusting for close to 20 years. I'd call this option a nonstarter right now but not an idea to throw away just yet.

How about as an isolated tourist line? If the line were currently operating and just recently shut down, I could see the potential for that in spots. However, the cost to rehab the line in its current condition pretty much rules out even being able to break even on a short tourist run. And Back East in general has much prettier scenery than a run through the broccoli fields as a draw. A middling option might be to see if any of the 'speeder' groups would like to take it over, like they have for Amador Central and remains of the old SP Placerville Branch and bits of the NWP - at least they can knock the weeds down and fix small problems in exchange for a place to run their stuff, and they can run off the riffraff.

Conclusion:

It's a Good Thing that as much of it as is still there was preserved - if it had been simply abandoned and reverted to the surrounding land owners we'd have nothing now (except perhaps some atoms from the steel scrap in our cars). But as near-term restoration job I just don't see it - the fund sources are limited, and are focused on projects that make better current transportation and economic sense - they have somebody with money actually interested in doing the rehab work and accommodating reasonably expected traffic. As long as the line can be preserved in its present form, the possiblity of reuse will remain and will be easier to do than if it was simply gone. So something that at least keeping things stabilized - that speeder group maybe? - is appropriate. More than that, as consultants like to say, needs further study.

Now we can bring this to a conclusion, and see if Eddie's just a troll or not. Restoring the Monterey Branch to rail operation is simply not on anybody's short-range radar, for good reasons, and all the discussion here won't change that. If you like the MI route by all means ride it - if I'm ever in the area I might too. Fixing the Monterey Branch for something like that won't happen. Continuing to work to develop potential traffic, and working with the funding and planning agencies to develop something, might have an effect but will take many years. Or else if you're related to Bill Gates and are looking for a way to spend money (a billion$ or 2 might be handy) you might want to talk to some of the planning folks down there about what can really be done with the Branch.

Cheers.



Subject Written By Date/Time (PST)
  Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 12:25
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Carol L. Voss 08-09-2013 - 12:44
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Mike Swanson 08-09-2013 - 15:40
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 16:09
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Carol L. Voss 08-09-2013 - 16:28
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Cp4449 08-09-2013 - 16:46
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey stash 08-09-2013 - 17:05
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 21:18
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 17:11
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 17:05
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey stash 08-09-2013 - 17:23
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 17:31
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey stash 08-09-2013 - 17:35
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 17:43
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey stash 08-09-2013 - 18:21
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 03:20
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Pagrovian 08-10-2013 - 12:51
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-10-2013 - 13:10
  Eccles and Eastern Ry..... next stop Los Gatos HUTCH 7.62 08-10-2013 - 20:27
  Re: Eccles and Eastern Ry..... next stop Los Gatos Graham Buxton 08-10-2013 - 21:05
  Re: Eccles and Eastern Ry..... next stop Los Gatos Eddie Elkins 08-11-2013 - 00:22
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Pagrovian 08-11-2013 - 12:18
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Freericks 08-11-2013 - 13:23
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 02:56
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey mook 08-09-2013 - 17:12
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 17:23
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Carol L. Voss 08-09-2013 - 17:45
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 20:44
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 20:44
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey mook 08-09-2013 - 20:53
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 21:07
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Fred 08-09-2013 - 18:09
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Victor Olanski 08-09-2013 - 19:23
  You All Took The Bait DrDre 08-09-2013 - 20:38
  Re: You All Took The Bait---so???? :-) Carol L. Voss 08-09-2013 - 20:59
  Re: You All Took The Bait---so???? :-) Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 21:14
  Re: You All Took The Bait---so???? :-) Freericks 08-09-2013 - 21:41
  Lessons To Learn Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 22:49
  Re: Lessons To Learn Freericks 08-10-2013 - 08:43
  Re: Lessons To Learn Reader 08-10-2013 - 11:23
  Re: Lessons To Learn Freericks 08-10-2013 - 12:34
  Re: Lessons To Learn Flames 08-11-2013 - 00:10
  Re: Lessons To Learn Freericks 08-11-2013 - 09:11
  Re: Lessons To Learn Freericks 08-11-2013 - 09:31
  Re: Lessons To Learn Fred 08-11-2013 - 17:58
  Re: Lessons To Learn Freericks 08-11-2013 - 19:18
  The Oregon Talgo-CASCADES Have A Lesson For Us Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 08:34
  Re: The Oregon Talgo-CASCADES Have A Lesson For Us SgtStripes 08-12-2013 - 15:49
  OR v. CA Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 18:37
  Re: OR v. CA Timothy Barham 08-13-2013 - 09:28
  Re: OR v. CA SJW 08-13-2013 - 11:47
  Re: OR v. CA mook 08-13-2013 - 12:39
  Re: OR v. CA go home 08-13-2013 - 14:56
  Re: OR v. CA HUTCH 7.62 08-13-2013 - 18:44
  Re: OR v. CA F. Gump 08-13-2013 - 21:56
  Re: OR v. CA HUTCH 7.62 08-14-2013 - 21:45
  Re: You All Took The Bait---so???? :-) Eddie Elkins 08-10-2013 - 13:44
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 03:54
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 03:41
  Lighten Up Del Monte 08-09-2013 - 22:47
  Re: Lighten Up Eddie Elkins 08-09-2013 - 23:01
  Re: Lighten Up Rich Hunn 08-10-2013 - 09:42
  Re: Lighten Up trollbaited 08-10-2013 - 10:21
  Re: Lighten Up Freericks 08-10-2013 - 13:08
  Re: Lighten Up Margaret (SP fan) 08-10-2013 - 15:12
  Re: Lighten Up Eddie Elkins 08-11-2013 - 00:32
  Re: Lighten Up Freericks 08-11-2013 - 09:22
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Jon 08-10-2013 - 11:37
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Reader 08-10-2013 - 11:48
  about the right of way bro 08-10-2013 - 12:18
  Re: about the right of way Rich Hunn 08-10-2013 - 12:51
  Re: Restoring Passenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-10-2013 - 12:51
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Shoofly 08-10-2013 - 13:27
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Drew Jacksich 08-10-2013 - 14:28
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Fred 08-10-2013 - 15:32
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey lurker 08-10-2013 - 22:09
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Drew 08-11-2013 - 09:13
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Timothy Barham 08-11-2013 - 14:31
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 02:45
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Cp4449 08-10-2013 - 14:41
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Freericks 08-10-2013 - 18:34
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey mook 08-10-2013 - 17:18
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey mook 08-10-2013 - 17:24
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Jim Speaker 08-10-2013 - 17:39
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Scott Schiechl 08-10-2013 - 19:12
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey SRSLY 08-10-2013 - 23:20
  Eddie Elkins What Did You Suck Me Into Freericks 08-11-2013 - 19:41
  Re: Eddie Elkins What Did You Suck Me Into LOL! 08-12-2013 - 10:49
  Now Look Who's Laughing Out Loud! Eddie Elkins 08-12-2013 - 13:16
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Gary Hunter 08-12-2013 - 14:32
  Re: Restoring PAssenger Rail Service To Monterey Carol L. Voss 08-12-2013 - 15:01
  Zev Yaroslavsky on Rail Service to Santa Monica Freericks 08-12-2013 - 15:11
  Re: Zev Yaroslavsky on Rail Service to Santa Monica mook 08-12-2013 - 18:09
  Enviro issues---Elkhorn Slough and Mook Carol L. Voss 08-12-2013 - 18:36
  Re: Enviro issues---Elkhorn Slough and Mook Freericks 08-12-2013 - 18:49
  Re: Enviro issues---Elkhorn Slough and Mook Eddie Elkins 08-13-2013 - 12:15
  Re: Enviro issues---Elkhorn Slough and Mook eemk 08-12-2013 - 21:23
  ATTENTION EVERYONE! TruthSayer 08-12-2013 - 20:12
  Re: ATTENTION EVERYONE! Eddie Elkins 08-13-2013 - 12:32
  Is this the largest # of replies ever on AP? Margaret (SP fan) 08-12-2013 - 20:56
  Re: Is this the largest # of replies ever on AP? Freericks 08-12-2013 - 21:09
  Re: Is this the largest # of replies ever on AP? Alfred Doten 08-13-2013 - 08:10
  Lets get Harry Reid to drum up money like he did for the V&T HUTCH 7.62 08-13-2013 - 18:25
  Re: Lets get Harry Reid to drum up money like he did for the V&T Chris Walker 08-13-2013 - 20:21
  Re: Lets get Harry Reid to drum up money like he did for the V&T Garderville 08-14-2013 - 18:49
  Re: Lets get Harry Reid to drum up money like he did for the V&T HUTCH 7.62 08-14-2013 - 21:41
  NDOT? Editor 08-15-2013 - 06:52
  The Official Poster Of The NIMBY? Eddie Elkins 08-15-2013 - 16:00
  RIP JHFC 08-18-2013 - 00:11
  Re: RIP Eddie Elkins 08-18-2013 - 16:59
  Re: RIP Pvt Parts 08-18-2013 - 20:12
  Re: RIP William Jennings Bryan 08-18-2013 - 20:31
  GEE Eddie I don't know HUTCH 7.62 08-18-2013 - 21:28
  Leave It To Eddie Eddie Elkins 08-19-2013 - 17:39


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